What insulation will bees chew up?

[Mushy Bees]

Hello,

I'm already thinking about how I'm going to keep them warm over winter and was thinking about the addition of two expanded polystyrene slabs (the white rigid stuff) either side of the frames (with OMF and crown board insulated - no vent). Maybe about in inch thick cut to the full size of the side of the BB.

Would they chew it up?

Thanks
MB

 

[Finman]

.
I have tried many things and you will look your constructions over half year.

Only reasonable solution is real polyhive. You may move frames to the more estetic hive for summer, but those slabs are not handy or nice at all.

In inner wall or ceiling bees jew the board, and if not bees, ants then.

Poly boxes cost something but you get money back soon because spring build up is fast and they forage more honey in early summer.

If you have a wooden hive and you close it with plastic, the wood will rotten quickly.

 

[drstitson]

polystyrene

since you can buy polystyrene hives i can't see there being as problem.

 

[oliver90owner]

since you can buy polystyrene hives i can't see there being as problem.

It is all about density. Over a certain density and they will not destroy it; less than the minimum, and they will remove it slowly, or more quickly, from the hive if they get access to it. Simple and no argument on that at all. Normal insulating and packaging expanded polystyrene materials are far below that minimum.

Behind an effective divider is 'OK'; covered in a bee-resistant material is 'OK'.

Top insulation is OK with an OMF and is a must- have for all hives IMO.

A sheet of impermeable material below the OMF means no OMF! So don't go there (insulating the OMF).

The OMF is just that - open! Maybe temporarily screen off or partly screen off to prevent very cold draughts for short periods of really hard weather, but otherwise open. The hive needs that bottom ventilation to remain dry (damp free). It is dampness that kills bees.

The bees will maintain a good hive temperature as long as there is not too much heat energy escaping through the fabric of the hive and the space above is not excessive.

Bees survived ouside, in a window opening all last winter somwhere in Warwicksire, so no problem with their own builds. Framed hives, with too much top ventilation, are another thing entirely.

Regards, RAB

 

[Finman]

.
When you make that job year after year put on- take off,
it is not a good business to make self made insulation.

 

[oliver90owner]

You are right, Finman.

But this is internal - to the hive - insulation, Mushy Bees is considering. Replacing 2 frames (Ten 14 x12 frames of stores is likely enough in the southern UK) and under the roof.

I would agree with you entirely if there were many more than 4 colonies to be sorted out each year - the economics of cost, storage and time would change.

I jam/fit a 25mm sheet of expanded polysyrene (cut to fit) in the recess (on the outside) at each end of the hive. Stays there all year. Leave 11 or 12 frames in the brood.

Regards, RAB

 

[HighlandWozza]

I am thinking about constructing a wooden box to place over my national hive so that there is a narrow gap of air between them and the floor remains OMF. Anyone any thoughts on this? The bees would still be able to get in and out if they wanted to.

 

[Finman]

is a narrow gap of air between them and the floor remains OMF.

Narrow gap is good. It cuts heat transferring in the wall.

 

[Finman]

You are right, Finman.

But this is internal - to the hive - insulation, Mushy Bees is considering. Replacing 2 frames

2 walls insulated and 2 not? I think that it does not help at all.


Think about a house which is well insulated. Then you keep the door open. Is it warm?

 

[iball]

I've been thinking about top insulation on my two nationals, both have a gabled roof.

Does putting polysterene above the crown board cause condensation or is the OMF sufficient to stop this from happening.

I was thinking of a breathable quilt made from wool loft insulation, or am I worrying needlessly?

Ian

 

[Peter Cox]

.
Only reasonable solution is real polyhive. You may move frames to the more estetic hive for summer, but those slabs are not handy or nice at all.

Poly boxes cost something but you get money back soon because spring build up is fast and they forage more honey in early summer.

If you have a wooden hive and you close it with plastic, the wood will rotten quickly.

Do you use Poly Boxes?
I assume your winter climate is similar to ours - winter is typically end of November to beginnining of April, we sometimes get down to -20f and average about 70 inches of snow.
I'm using langstroth's and don't wrap them and don't add internal insulation. Overwinter on 2 deeps and they seem to make it OK. Sometimes need to add fondant starting around mid Februaray.

 

[Finman]

.
Polystyrene is not good as inner cover. It is short living and painfull to keep clean.


"I was thinking of a breathable quilt made from wool loft insulation, or am I worrying needlessly?"

I have such a construction. A wooden box frame + 10 mm board. The moisture passes through. Then 50-70 mm insulation which breathes.

 

[Finman]

Do you use Poly Boxes?
I assume your winter climate is similar to ours - winter is typically end of November to beginnining of April, we sometimes get down to -20f and average about 70 inches of snow.
I'm using langstroth's and don't wrap them and don't add internal insulation. Overwinter on 2 deeps and they seem to make it OK. Sometimes need to add fondant starting around mid Februaray.

Seems to be same as I do...

Our willows start blooming about first of May. Then natural brooding begins and they get food outside. So, I feed in September and they live with sugar 8 months.

 

[Polyanwood]

Can you use use sheep fleece as insulation in the roof? I would have thought that woudl be breathable.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I have just ordered some wool insulation. RAB posted that he cuts a window in his insulation so that he can place fondant and then puts another layer on top so I wondered whether I could use wool.

 

[Finman]

.
I use used ( recycling) foam plastic mattress. As a new they are expencive.
Wooden parts are recycled too.

Wooden is important because I like to clean the inner cover with propane torsch.

 

[Poly Hive]

The insulation I used above my timber hives was floor mate made by Dow.

http://www.floormate-online.co.uk/

Bear in mind over a crown board whith no holes in it or covered holes then there is no bee access to it.

For a partition you could face it to the bees with Fablon. Not cheap but pretty bee proof.

Or as already suggested and the obvious answer is to just buy a Poly hive and reap the benefits of the proper system. but then I would say that.... lol

PH

 

[clare p]

I was going to use a washed sheeps fleece in a pillow case.
Is that ridiculous? My husband seemed to think it was, but I thought it is breathable, warm, natural and if it is in a pillow case they won't get stuck in the fleece.
I have a WBC and a national, so I was going to use a super to stuff it into for the winter, perhaps look at a hole/flap that can be used for fondant ( if needed)
Clare

 

[oliver90owner]

I over-winter my colonies in 14 x 12broods with insulation over, and OMF under. No problems with condensation.

Read post#4.

Regards, RAB

 

[Finman]

No problems with condensation.

I opened last winter 4-frame nuc and the hive was half full of snow. It had become from condesated water from cluster respiration.
Outer temp was -20C.
But it is normal. So they live in the winter here.