What hive for the big guys

[deemann1]

Currently I'm running all national hives , there is a bit of work in making these, quite time consuming
Would any of you guys that do beekeeping for a living and have been doing it for some years had a chance to start again would you stick with the commercial, national hives or go for Langstroths maybe the 8 frame boxes be best for the back
Any thoughts
Be interesting to here your thoughts on this

 

[eltalia]

There exists today - in Australia and NZ at least - some very sophisticated
crane systems along with AWL light vehicles, together eliminating _any_
weight considerations in moving stacks around.
Factor this into the startup and Bob's yer Uncle(colloq.) - FD 10frm Lang,
only.
However the prime efficiency is found in using palletisation , and so it might
well prove wise to restructure around that system after a few years of profit.
We came to that conclusion after years of watching a business grow and
struggling with work-a-rounds. We sold as a palletised operation - many a
lesson learnt.

Bill

 

[Hachi]

I run mainly Comrcl's as I found Nats just not big enough

 

[Beefriendly]

Yup single National brood boxes are not big enough (Cornish Amms and most local bees excepted). However their versatility in being able to expand to double brood (triple on occasions) when required or contract down to single for overwintering etc makes them a good compromise to work with as they are one size will fit all answer....assuming you can afford to buy more boxes...

 

[enrico]

One large box can't easily be split. Double national can. Just one consideration. If I started again would probably use 14 x12
E

 

[MartinL]

There exists today - in Australia and NZ at least - . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Bill

Don't think he was interested in what goes on where the choice of hive is restricted.

I'd stick to what I have, (mix of National & 14X12s.

Still interested in top bar and never going to be more than 10 colonies

[+ nucs of course].

 

[eltalia]

Don't think he was interested in what goes on where the choice of hive is restricted.

Are you declaring a "closed shop"?
Like "no ticket no work", 'thing'?
Pretty much it is "anything goes" here... just that most soon learn what works.
However some do indeed dabble... just for "shi7s an' giggles" - see attached.

I'd stick to what I have, (mix of National & 14X12s.
Still interested in top bar and never going to be more than 10 colonies
[+ nucs of course].

Take the plunge and move beyond interest only...

Bill

 

[Poly Hive]

Amm is or should be quite capable of needing more than 11 frames. After all the Glen was made with up to 24 frames!

Langstroth is for commercial purposes far more suitable as a certain BF said rectangular bodies are more efficient on trucks.

If I were starting over and not bothered about nucs then yep Lang would be my choice. In poly of course.

PH

 

[For want of a better word]

Amms easily fill a std WRC or Polly National and will go double brood in the late summers ready for the balsom.
My preference would be for good quality WRC National as polly with all its insulation attributes... ideal for the Medditeraenian type imports...is not that easy to clean.

BUT if cost was not a barrier and given the correct cage line cleaner equipment I think I would go with polly Nationals!
Chons da

 

[B+.]

I started with wooden Langstroth and the only change over the years is that I now have quite a lot of poly...but, I still use the wood boxes too.
I think the key is to choose a box that suits your bee. If you have a more prolific bee, then it makes sense to choose a bigger hive. If you have the desire to grow the size of your operation, you also need a box that is affordable. Langstoth does that for me. It is quick and easy to put together without any fiddly pieces.

 

[deemann1]

Thanks for feedback guys
At the moment I make all my own wrc national hives
https://ibb.co/dksjFxr
https://ibb.co/XJYs9VL
I was debating with a friend to start making 8 frame nationals all boxes brood size frame, the amm seem to work great in them we tried a couple this year on double brood

 

[mbc]

After reading advice on brood box size and swarming I started converting to 16x10 commercial hives years ago, I went up to about 70 of them. In the last few years I've been attempting to go back to all nationals but am still running about 30 commercial hives. I find with native bees more of my honey ends up in the supers with national hives whereas with the commercials in a so so year a lot of the honey ends up in their brood box and they're a clumsy format to extract. Also, nuc sales are predominantly in nationals.

 

[WalnutTreeBees]

Thanks for feedback guys
At the moment I make all my own wrc national hives
https://ibb.co/dksjFxr
https://ibb.co/XJYs9VL
I was debating with a friend to start making 8 frame nationals all boxes brood size frame, the amm seem to work great in them we tried a couple this year on double brood

Have you seen the Rose hive? Same footprint as a national but 190mm high boxes meaning you can just buy 200x50mm timber and cut some rebates for bees and for hands (if you use top bee space then even less work).

I have the same predicament as you and am also considering running all 8 frame nationals or Rose boxes. At the moment I am leaning towards Rose boxes because it means no gluing up of boards to get 225mm sides (I dont have much space). But then again it is useful to be able to introduce national frames from other people.

 

[SDM]

Thanks for feedback guys
At the moment I make all my own wrc national hives
https://ibb.co/dksjFxr
https://ibb.co/XJYs9VL
I was debating with a friend to start making 8 frame nationals all boxes brood size frame, the amm seem to work great in them we tried a couple this year on double brood

Since you make your own, commercial hives are an obvious one, since you keep all your national hive equipment except the brood boxes and gain the larger brood area and a hive far easier to construct. Depending on your equipment at least half the time and only one dimension of timber involved. Costs per hive in frames and foundation over double brood also fall by about 1/3rd.
However, if selling nucs is going to be a consideration then in this country we are locked into the standard national as it's the hobbyist market you'll be selling to.
With a hundred ish hives( a mix of national and commercial) now and still growing, I wish I'd switched to langstroth when I was on about 20 hives. Ran the 20 for nuc production and langstroth for everything else.
We get tied into the national format as beginners and the further down the road you are the harder it is to make the switch.

 

[SDM]

After reading advice on brood box size and swarming I started converting to 16x10 commercial hives years ago, I went up to about 70 of them. In the last few years I've been attempting to go back to all nationals but am still running about 30 commercial hives. I find with native bees more of my honey ends up in the supers with national hives whereas with the commercials in a so so year a lot of the honey ends up in their brood box and they're a clumsy format to extract. Also, nuc sales are predominantly in nationals.

Are you using single brood national hives or doubles? Is it just that the commercials are too big for the bees you keep ? Where are they storing the honey in the commercials? Side frames or tops of frames?
What do you mean by clumsy to extract ? My extractor takes 12 commercial deeps tangentally, self turning, I can't see a difference in extracting any other deep frame

 

[mbc]

Are you using single brood national hives or doubles? Is it just that the commercials are too big for the bees you keep ? Where are they storing the honey in the commercials? Side frames or tops of frames?
What do you mean by clumsy to extract ? My extractor takes 12 commercial deeps tangentally, self turning, I can't see a difference in extracting any other deep frame

Singles and double brood with my nationals, depending on need on a case by case basis with a goal of overwintering everything on singles.
Honey stores both in an arch over the brood and side frames, so yes the 16x10 is too large for the average of my colonies.
I should have said awkward and clumsy to uncap due to the size and weight of the frame rather than clumsy to extract. Have you got one of the konigin auto swing cage jobbies, if so how's it going for you?

 

[SDM]

. Have you got one of the konigin auto swing cage jobbies, if so how's it going for you?

Yes, too early to give a proper review and I'm likely to be easy to please after managing last year with a 9 frame manual, but love it so far.
The really interesting bit will be seeing how it copes with heather and a hand loosener

 

[Poly Hive]

If you can invest in a proper loosner and that coupled with your swing basket will be a dream. The one issue I had with my extractor was it was unbraked which was a shocker.

PH

 

[mbc]

The really interesting bit will be seeing how it copes with heather and a hand loosener

Exactly why I asked

 

[SDM]

If you can invest in a proper loosner and that coupled with your swing basket will be a dream. The one issue I had with my extractor was it was unbraked which was a shocker.

PH

Couldn't stretch to yours when it was up for grabs and Snowdonia heather isn't great. Over grazing and poor management has broken it up into isolated patches. I'll have to travel to nearer lal5000's way to get to decent heather moors. So I'm not clear yet how big a part heather will play for me.
This season should have "potential" given the weather through May and June.