What constitutes a "heavy" varroa load?

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"Thymol contains carvacrol"

Not quite HM!

Thyme OIL contains carvacrol (and thymol).
THYMOL is an isomer of carvacrol.
 
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Thymol contains carvacrol, ...

Ummm ...

Just been looking up Carvacrol. (EDIT - as have others! I'll let the cross-post stand.)
Its an isomer of Thymol. (Same chemical composition, different structure.)

It has a very similar structure indeed (the hydoxyl group is attached at a different, neighbouring position on the phenolic ring.)

So its a very similar (though different) compound.
It has similar anti-oxidant, anti-bacterial and anti-fungal properties.

I think different Oregano varieties contain both, in varying proportions.
 
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As low as possible is zero

But things go this way:

- you must have a low mite load start that you succeed to go to Autumn without problems.

- You cannot use coltrol chemicals during yield

- After yield you start to kill mites that they do not spoil winter bees

-Now with trickling you have opportunity to hit mite load so down that they do not propagate themselves to harmfull level.

It is impossible to cull drones from 8 box hives, and if you have those hives 200 and 5 box hives 400 pieces.

Professionals have only couple of minutes time to handle hives and you cannot look for drone pupe in that timetable.

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It is impossible to cull drones from 8 box hives, and if you have those hives 200 and 5 box hives 400 pieces.
Professionals have only couple of minutes time to handle hives and you cannot look for drone pupe in that timetable.
.

True,plus it is a stupid game to cull drones.
 
How many mites in colony is giving a drop of 27 +- over 3 days?
Look at the FERA booklet. It tells you.....but you need to think about it.

Threshold of 1000 mites in colony (50000 bees) is considered point to treat?

I don't necessarily follow that. I reduce the mite loading as low as possible for ensuring healthy winter bees. Irrespective of loading, usually.

If that figure was correct there should be very few treating with oxalic acid? I am one of the few that don't treat with oxalic acid unless felt necessary.

This word 'treat' has connotations of chemicals. A sugar roll as a treatment and first capped brood removal is fairly 'non-invasive' with regards to honey crop or brood.

September treat with Apiguard... hope for massive drop?

There should never be a massive drop. Not if the beek is up to speed with checking and attacking the mite at every appropriate opportunity.

As said previously, unless I had reason to believe the mite loading was very low indeed, treatment with thymol (not apiguard, for me) is carried out to ensure the winter bee brood has minimum molestation from the mite. That is more important to me than actua lmite loading. If the mite count is fairly low the FERA booklet effectively says don't treat! (which for me would likely mean they need an organic acid treatment mid-winter - and I try to avoid oxalic treatment. So you can see from this that I don't actually do all they say, all of the time. I think out my strategy and take appropriate actions for the best welfare of my bees.

Oxallic acid by trickle or sublimation in the depths of winter?

There you go again. If mite loadings are low, you should not be treating (per Itma and the bee inspectors, if not the FERA booklet)?

Trickle only when no brood?

And sublimate at that time too (depths of winter).

AS in spring ( to rid colony of mite in brood cells)?

Nooo. A/S means Artificial Swarming as a swarm control measure. Shook swarm might be a better way or an alternative.

Keep icing sugar for cakes!

I use it for some manipulations eg sugar rolling. Not often, but it is an option if required.

Seriously there seems to be some very confusing and conflicting advice.......

Not really. If only the beek were to think about the problem, and all the options, there need be little confusion.

Doing nothing is not the answer.

Depends at what point you decide to do nothing! With a light loading, that decision is the correct one for most situations.

Can thymolated syrup be used as a spring feed at 1:1 ????

Yes, but the risk of thymolated syrup in the honey will be greatly increased! Why should they need it? If enough is fed the previous autumn. Thymolated syrup may have an effect on varroa, but I don't really count it as a 'varroa treatment'.

Still confused? Probably.

RAB
 
{about thymol and carvacrol in food}

More in depth in this link....http://ddr.nal.usda.gov/bitstream/10113/35712/1/IND44273329.pdf


Very interesting - thanks!

Looks like they didn't use an emulsifier (like lecithin) since they note a problem with oil separating from the syrup.

The discussion leads to (towards the end of page 5 of the pdf) showing that supplemented protein feeding gets the oils to the mite in three different ways, (ADDED - "Mites are therefore exposed to supplemental oils in their preferred brood hosts (late fifth instar larvae), their initial phoretic hosts (newly emerged adults), and their preferred phoretic hosts (young nurse bees).") so that -
if the goal is to incorporate
origanum oil components into the honey bee life stages that serve as {varroa}
hosts, the oil components should be supplemented into a protein diet
rather than sugar syrup diet
. In addition, the direct contamination of
honey and nectar stores by oil components in supplemental protein
diets is limited because only pure sugar sources, not protein
supplements, are directly processed into sugar Stores (G Wardell,
pers. obsv.).

In turn, that suggests that thymolated protein food could be used in Spring, without risk of contaminating a Spring honey crop.


Which leads me to ask - what "liquid protein diets" might one use?
I note that the experimenters used a product called 'MegaBee' obtained from an organisation called "S.A.F.E." who also, (perhaps unfortunately) seem to have supplied one of the report's authors ...
 
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It doesn't seem very 'academic' to have such a clear 'interested party' as Dr Wardell being one of the researchers.

Sorry it displeases you,not much we can do about that is there,perhaps you could contact them and ask if they could carry out more research without him being involved...athough that is only a company that produces feed substitutes,not trying to sell thymol or oregano as far as i can see.
Out of interest,if any, how much research of your own have you done into feeding bees on eo's,obsevations ect, over how many years.
 
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What constitutes a "heavy" varroa load?

I've seen an average of 3-4 mites per bee - that is heavy, late summer in hives that had been treated previuos autumn (at least the guy who gave them to me told me so). And even then not all of them collapsed (only 2 out of 18 - the ones that didnt accept the introdiced queens).

The numbers can be very confusing somethimes. There is no need to count the mites (unles for scientific purpuse). If you ocasionally see a mite or two - DON'T PANIC - it's normal, you can't possibly kill them all. Just keep the mites as low as you don't see deformed bees very frequently.

Regards
Donnie
 
Thymolated syrup may have an effect on varroa, but I don't really count it as a 'varroa treatment'.

Still confused? Probably.

RAB


IT HAS NOT! Never seen researches that it has. There is no treamtment whick make a bee blood poisonous to mites. And there is no treamnet which affects under the brood cap.

Nothing confusing. Varroa has been researched so much that you need not to be confused. Unless you have natural tendency to that.
 
What constitutes a "heavy" varroa load?

I've seen an average of 3-4 mites per bee - Regards
Donnie

In every bee of the 50 000 bees colony?

it means 2 000 000 mites in the hive . - on average!

Yes, sure. Keep a break in drinking,
 
In every bee of the 50 000 bees colony?

it means 2 000 000 mites in the hive . - on average!

Yes, sure. Keep a break in drinking,


hold off on the Vodka Finman, you might be 10x out :rolleyes:
 
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Heat is one,or formic acid at certain strength,and of course imformation of reasearch in the previous links.

I have never hear than some one uses heat. Sci story. Have you used?


2010:
"The Varroa-Controller allows a thermal treatment against the Varroa mite at the beginning of the beekeeping season already in April/May.
This leads to a lower level of infestation and allows a later honey harvesting.

The thermal treatment against Varroa mite enables chemical free beekeeping.

For more information please contact us."
 
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it means 2 000 000 mites in the hive . - on average!


This is a random photo from the internet, but the situation was pretty much the same. So it was not so uncommon after all.

You do the math.

By the way, i am going to disappoint you but not every bulgarian drinks, as you might be thinking.
 
This is a random photo from the internet, but the situation was pretty much the same. So it was not so uncommon after all.

You do the math.

By the way, i am going to disappoint you but not every bulgarian drinks, as you might be thinking.

Scutellator! I remember when you wrote that you have mite resistant bees in Romania so much that I cannot calculate them.

Our varroa expert visited in Romania and he did not met such bee strains.
 
This is a random photo from the internet, but the situation was pretty much the same. So it was not so uncommon after all.

You do the math.

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Use your brains man! It is not so uncommon among beekeepers.

But let them come. Romanian jokes are rare.
 

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