Well that didn't work...

[enrico]

A tip I was given some years ago and which has always worked in the past for me.
On a frame of eggs/larvae , in the centre of the frame under some cells that contain eggs, scrape away the cells down to the foundation. About two inches deep and an inch wide. ( the width of a normal hive tool for an inch or so) If they are going to make queen cells this is where they will put them. Perfect place, they will extend the cells that have the eggs in down through the gap you have made. You usually get a cluster of two or three. It seems to encourage them to make them as they are in the centre of the frame and if there is any inkling that that they want to make queens this kick starts them. Don't know why but has worked every time for me.
Try it, nothing to lose.
E

 

[mintmoth]

I was in the same situation. Everyone said give it another week. the SBI said give it 2 weeks. Meanwhile the bees dwindled. Closed the entrance to one bee space. The hive was, in spite of this, devastated by robbers and wasps. Now minus one colony.

NEVER again will I wait, wait, wait, believing what I thought was experienced advice.

 

[Clemcook]

I was in the same situation. Everyone said give it another week. the SBI said give it 2 weeks. Meanwhile the bees dwindled. Closed the entrance to one bee space. The hive was, in spite of this, devastated by robbers and wasps. Now minus one colony.

NEVER again will I wait, wait, wait, believing what I thought was experienced advice.

Ue
So what did you do?? or what would you have done if you knew the outcome?

 

[maddydog]

Ue
So what did you do?? or what would you have done if you knew the outcome?

Everything is easy with hindsight but now you can see why alot of beeks buy in mated queens for planned splits or expect losses if rearing their own queens.

I don't think you mentioned whether this split was part of an AS? If so, then there is always a nervous time while you wait for a new q to get mated and lay.

 

[Clemcook]

Everything is easy with hindsight but now you can see why alot of beeks buy in mated queens for planned splits or expect losses if rearing their own queens.

I don't think you mentioned whether this split was part of an AS? If so, then there is always a nervous time while you wait for a new q to get mated and lay.

Yes it is an AS split, queen has been out for about 5 weeks but hasn't laid

 

[Karsal]

A tip I was given some years ago and which has always worked in the past for me.
On a frame of eggs/larvae , in the centre of the frame under some cells that contain eggs, scrape away the cells down to the foundation. About two inches deep and an inch wide. ( the width of a normal hive tool for an inch or so) If they are going to make queen cells this is where they will put them. Perfect place, they will extend the cells that have the eggs in down through the gap you have made. You usually get a cluster of two or three. It seems to encourage them to make them as they are in the centre of the frame and if there is any inkling that that they want to make queens this kick starts them. Don't know why but has worked every time for me.
Try it, nothing to lose.
E

Excellent tip.
One to remember for the years to come. Thanks

 

[Millet]

I was in the same situation. Everyone said give it another week. the SBI said give it 2 weeks. Meanwhile the bees dwindled. Closed the entrance to one bee space. The hive was, in spite of this, devastated by robbers and wasps. Now minus one colony.

NEVER again will I wait, wait, wait, believing what I thought was experienced advice.

I have been in a similar situation two years in a row through listening to experienced advice, which was leave them alone and through leaving them alone the virgin's never made it and this year i was left with a second laying worker colony through leaving them alone, i will go with my gut instinct from now on.

 

[Millet]

Ue
So what did you do?? or what would you have done if you knew the outcome?

I would add a test frame sooner depending on the time of the year or even try a caged mated Queen on the top bars to see how the bees reacted, 3wks maximum 4wks without any eggs and i would do what i have said as them laying worker colonies are a pain in the Ar*e.

 

[mintmoth]

So what did you do?? or what would you have done if you knew the outcome?

Nothing left to do except learn from the experience, and replace the bees next spring. Lesson learned.

What would I have done/should I have done?

Trusted myself that I believed there was no queen - I'm not expert at spotting unmarked queens, but I had a darned good search and saw nothing, (neither did the 2 experienced beeks who looked), and I'd have bought a replacement MATED queen (to kick-start the dwindling numbers of old bees).

I'd have put her in a push in cage on the comb so she could lay but be protected, "just in case" I was wrong and there was a queen in there.

 

[Erichalfbee]

A tip I was given some years ago and which has always worked in the past for me.
On a frame of eggs/larvae , in the centre of the frame under some cells that contain eggs, scrape away the cells down to the foundation. About two inches deep and an inch wide. ( the width of a normal hive tool for an inch or so) If they are going to make queen cells this is where they will put them. Perfect place, they will extend the cells that have the eggs in down through the gap you have made. You usually get a cluster of two or three. It seems to encourage them to make them as they are in the centre of the frame and if there is any inkling that that they want to make queens this kick starts them. Don't know why but has worked every time for me.
Try it, nothing to lose.
E

Excellent....that's a good idea.

 

[Clemcook]

I was just thinking about this from Enrico, sounds good, so basically taking a hole out of the brood? Let's say I get a queen cell I'm assuming I have no virgin queen? And if this is the case isn't another month for her to emerge
Etc on top too late into the season? I wonder whether to try and get a matednqueen in there and try my luck? Also find an experienced keeper to find a queen?although I would of thought there would of been something happening by now?? Also not loads of stores happening in there, wonder if I should feed
Them?

Thanks

 

[drex]

I always run a few nucleus colonies throughout the year. This year, having grafted queens for the first time, I will take six into winter. Last year all my nucs came through winter. It means I always have spare laying queens to hand. When the nucs are full of brood I can bleed off frames to boost my main hives. The nucs are all wooden home made, and do not need a lot of resources to start up. Win win situation .

 

[Clemcook]

I always run a few nucleus colonies throughout the year. This year, having grafted queens for the first time, I will take six into winter. Last year all my nucs came through winter. It means I always have spare laying queens to hand. When the nucs are full of brood I can bleed off frames to boost my main hives. The nucs are all wooden home made, and do not need a lot of resources to start up. Win win situation .

Thanks, I'm a bit confused how this helps my situation?are you saying I should buy a queen or take them through winter without a queen?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Thanks, I'm a bit confused how this helps my situation?are you saying I should buy a queen or take them through winter without a queen?

No what it means is that if you have spare small colonies you can use them as feeder nucs....no help for you now but a good reason to have some spare queens and a feeder nuc is a good way to use them.

I was just thinking about this from Enrico, sounds good, so basically taking a hole out of the brood? Let's say I get a queen cell I'm assuming I have no virgin queen? And if this is the case isn't another month for her to emerge
Etc on top too late into the season? I wonder whether to try and get a matednqueen in there and try my luck? Also find an experienced keeper to find a queen?although I would of thought there would of been something happening by now?? Also not loads of stores happening in there, wonder if I should feed
Them?

Thanks

Removing brood from under eggs enables the bees to easily extend an emergency cell down instead of bending it round brood underneath. They are more likely to raise a cell if you make it easier for them.

Use the test frame as just that. If you get a queen cell get a new queen don't let them make their own.
If there are no stores then feed. Is there any pollen in the brood box? If there is no pollen then the queen won't lay. It's one of the causes of queens taking a break in the year. Some of mine have.

 

[Clemcook]

Okay thank you, I will try the frame, it's a solid frame of brood so I'll make a hole in it somewhere in the middle?! to the foundation? Wait a week and if no QC will that be enough to say there must be a virgin in there? And if so try and see her, will they be okay over winter this way?

And there really isn't any pollen a small amount of stores and drawn frames.
So maybe she is taking a break before she started?'

 

[Erichalfbee]

Okay thank you, I will try the frame, it's a solid frame of brood so I'll make a hole in it somewhere in the middle?! to the foundation? Wait a week and if no QC will that be enough to say there must be a virgin in there? And if so try and see her, will they be okay over winter this way?

And there really isn't any pollen a small amount of stores and drawn frames.
So maybe she is taking a break before she started?'

Feed them 1:1 syrup and an Ultrabee Patty from bee-equipment

 

[JWF]

If you are definitely queenless and can't get a new queen from somewhere, then uniting your colonies is the best option.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Okay thank you, I will try the frame, it's a solid frame of brood so I'll make a hole in it somewhere in the middle?! to the foundation? Wait a week and if no QC will that be enough to say there must be a virgin in there? And if so try and see her, will they be okay over winter this way?

And there really isn't any pollen a small amount of stores and drawn frames.
So maybe she is taking a break before she started?'

I don't believe there is anything definite about it. If they don't raise a queen cell(s) there might be a queen present or they just might not want to build a cell. Yet another possibility is a dud queen is in there somewhere.

If they do raise a cell they are trying to create a new queen and it’s safe to believe the colony is queenless.

 

[Poly Hive]

Just to clarify one point and also to highlight the situation I just posted else where that certainly in my area it s now in my view too lage to expect a newly mated queen to get a nuc through winter.

A colony of what ever size will be very unlikely to survive winter with out a mated queen capable of performing properly.

PH

 

[Clemcook]

Just to clarify one point and also to highlight the situation I just posted else where that certainly in my area it s now in my view too lage to expect a newly mated queen to get a nuc through winter.

A colony of what ever size will be very unlikely to survive winter with out a mated queen capable of performing properly.

PH[/

I don't really want to wait any longer whilst my numbers dwindle, I'm going to see if I can get a mates queen, hope she survives and is excepted, how long should it take her to lay?

I'm thinking I have a week or two to play with before uniting becomes
Urgent? And if there is a video virgin in there my queen will kill her? One would assume