weight of syrup

[johnandyrob]

Sorry my friend I was not referring to fondant, it is not advised to make syrup with boiling or near to boiling water I dont know the science but it can make the syrup toxic to the bees.

It is obviously a question of degrees of heat, warm water is ok. close to and perhaps boiling not advised, up to 115C and above ok.

I have looked and have not found any reference saying near to and boiling water is good for making syrup infact the opposite other than people on this forum.

If warm water works then thats good for me and I sooner air on the side of caution its better to be safe than sorry.

Im not sure but i thought that it was only toxic to bees if you put cream of tartar in and you could boil the sugar syrup to kill the yeast spores so the sugar syrup doesn't ferment if left for more than three days and then become toxic to bees

 

[Rosti]

Im not sure but i thought that it was only toxic to bees if you put cream of tartar in and you could boil the sugar syrup to kill the yeast spores so the sugar syrup doesn't ferment if left for more than three days and then become toxic to bees

Tom's right, no need to go into the breakdown products now though. If you want to knock out Y&M when making syrup and give it some keeping qualities then pre-heat the water to 85'C, that is comfortably below polysaccaride breakdown thresholds and high enough to give a good heat treatment to the water, sugar and more importantly the pan and that horrible wooden spoon that you'll be using to stir it with! Put the spoon in the pan with the hot water before adding the sugar, temperature post addition for a 6 Kg sugar addition to 3 ltr water is only about 65'C which is not an effective Y&M kill.

Also means that you can dissolve up a 2:1 much quicker, a couple of minutes with a hand blender and the jobs done.

 

[oliver90owner]

For 2:1, I dump the sugar into closer to boiling, probably, than 85 degrees in a preserving pans, but the temperature drop will be almost instantaneous, with no further heat on - hot water and cold sugar being mixed (not checked the specific heat of sucrose, but I daresay it is documented somewhere! (found on net = 1.25kJ in SI units)). I do use a large S/S whisk - better than a wooden spoon!

So resultant temperature of water at 85C and sugar at 20C will be little over 60C, not taking into consideration any energy of dissolution. It would then be dumped into the 25l 'bulk' bucket, so is cooled again (by dilution of thermal energy), as soon as dissolved. Seemed OK to me.

Not fed any autumn feed for about seven years, I would think.

So I don't do it often and don't look like I will be making much, if any, this autumn either - unless I wanted to pinch a few extra kilos of honey from the brood boxes of some of my colonies.

As an aside, one also needs to remember that honey yields for those who 'pinch' every last drop of available honey, will be considerably higher than the likes of me, who does not follow that course. I could take another ten kilos, if I was so disposed, from some of them.

Regards, RAB

 

[Tom Bick]

What happens if you put back on a super after extraction. And them feed. Will the bees simply fill the super back up with the feed ? is this a good way to make sure you have enough stores for winter with out filling the brood box with feed. Thus giving the Q space to lay?

Yes the bees will fill the super with syrup and perhaps Ivy honey yet to flower but not long now.

This will give you plenty of stores for the winter and depending on the size of the colony more than is required but will give you good insurance.

The problem you may have to deal with is any syrup stores left in the super and how to remove them so they dont mix with your first honey crop of the year.

 

[johnandyrob]

Im not sure but i thought that it was only toxic to bees if you put cream of tartar in and you could boil the sugar syrup to kill the yeast spores so the sugar syrup doesn't ferment if left for more than three days and then become toxic to bees

Syrup, whether bought pre-mixed or mixed into a solution from bags of dry sugar, has a limited shelf life. This is usually dictated by the growth of yeast spores in the syrup. Syrup mixed from dry sugar should be fed to the bees within three days, particularly during warm or hot weather. The process of fermentation will increase the warmer the temperature. Commercially available pre-mixed syrup will usually last longer as it has been sterilized in the process of dissolving the sugar into the solution. The same can be achieved by the beekeeper by boiling the syrup for 10-15 minutes before storing it in a sterile, clean containers. It is always better to mix or prepare the amount that is required for immediate use. Old syrup may look okay, but the rising yeast cell counts will have a significant deleterious effect on adult bees , leading to premature deaths of field bees Only mix the amount of syrup required for immediate needs and use clean containers. Fat Bees Skinny Bees Australian Government Rural Industries Research and Development Corporation 2005

The link for the whole thing is on the forum some where

 

[Repwoc]

So do the bees then manage to concentrate it or somehow stop the yeasts growing once they have taken it down into the hive? It's going to be in there a lot longer than three days and the bees will keep it quite warm too.

 

[Queens59]

When I made feed earlier in the year at 2:1 I found a method where you put sugar in conatiner, marked where it came to and filled to that point with water. Is there a similar method for the autumn feed?

 

[Repwoc]

2:1 is 2:1 so if your method makes 2:1 then it's suitable for whenever 2:1 is needed. There isn't a different 2:1 for Autumn feeding.

 

[Queens59]

No, I know that - but what I wanted was a similar method for making the autumn 2:2 feed...I know you don't feed 2:1 in the autumn?!?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Just mark your container. 2Kg sugar, mark. Add 1 litre water, mark.
By the way 2:2 is the same as 1:1 and is stimulative feeding. 2:1 IS what you feed in the autumn.

 

[Black Comb]

Syrup, whether bought pre-mixed or mixed into a solution from bags of dry sugar, has a limited shelf life. This is usually dictated by the growth of yeast spores in the syrup. Syrup mixed from dry sugar should be fed to the bees within three days, particularly during warm or hot weather. The process of fermentation will increase the warmer the temperature. Commercially available pre-mixed syrup will usually last longer as it has been sterilized in the process of dissolving the sugar into the solution. The same can be achieved by the beekeeper by boiling the syrup for 10-15 minutes before storing it in a sterile, clean containers. It is always better to mix or prepare the amount that is required for immediate use. Old syrup may look okay, but the rising yeast cell counts will have a significant deleterious effect on adult bees , leading to premature deaths of field bees Only mix the amount of syrup required for immediate needs and use clean containers. Fat Bees Skinny Bees Australian Government Rural Industries Research and Development Corporation 2005

The link for the whole thing is on the forum some where

I agree that you should only feed them freshly mixed.
However, adding Hivemaker's thymol solution does inhibit fungal growth.
The bees invert the sugar.
Premixed e.g. "Ambrosia" is inverted - that's why it doesn't "go off"

 

[johnandyrob]

I used to invert mine with cream of tartar till some one one here told me it was toxic. I don't no what thymol is. People tell me to use oxalic acid it is natural until i mentioned it to a fellow beek who happens to be a chemist who told me it is but no where neer that concentration is it the same for thymol?

 

[Black Comb]

If you read the sticky about it you'll understand.