WBC or National?

[JCBrum]

I agree Steve. 14 x 12 is an option for me too.

However, from the start I realised that once you are on a particular hive it is difficult (and expensive) to change. This is why I bought well-used with the intention of deciding after one year.

I'm planning to go to jumbo Langstroth as I can always reduce the size of the box to accomodate less prolific bees.

From Thornes catalogue
No. of worker cells :-
National 50,000
WBC 45,000
Commercial 70,500
Langstroth 61,400
Dadant 85,000

14 x 12 isn't listed so perhaps someone can advise?

Peter, 14x12 adds very close to +50% to the number of cells of a DN frame. So the list becomes -

National 50,000
National ED (14x12) 75,000
WBC 45,000
WBC ED (14x12) 67,500
Commercial 70,500
Langstroth 61,400
Dadant 85,000

Based upon Thornes figures.

Personally, for garden use, up to say 6 hives, I think the optimized hive design is a WBC with omf and National ED interior.

This gives the best combination of attractive appearance, warmth in winter, and adequate brood space.

I don't know whether anyone is producing these commercially, but if they were I would suggest top bee space as well.

I have just discovered a timber merchant who does cedar ply for £20 a sheet, and I may well make a few during the winter, for my own use. I expect the materials to cost about £30 per hive.

Seemingly the only drawback is suitability for migratory beekeeping, but if you think about it, that is a summer situation, so having a few standard floors available in addition would deal with that situation too. No need to use the lifts all the time if you don't want to.

Perhaps all you 'old hands' and 'hive constructors' might comment on this suggestion.

I suggest these days, any commercial keepers are very likely to go poly langstroth, but wood is nice to see and is environmentally sustainable imo.

 

[Nick W]

Hi everyone

Thanks for the replies - keep them coming in!

thanks again.

Nick

 

[Hivemaker.]

I believe the ammount of cells on 11..... 14x12s are 81,774.. of course some are obscured by the frame.

 

[JCBrum]

So Hivemaker, ........

What about a 'BKforum' special hive ?? ....

WBC format, with ED Nat interior components, and top bee space, .....

Is it the 'Optimum' amateur hive, with you as the specialist supplier ??

 

[Hivemaker.]

Ha ha,what a mixture,a national will fit inside the lifts of a WBC anyway.

 

[JCBrum]

I know, but to do the job correctly you need a floor that is omf and gets the entrance right.

Seems like a good idea to me atm.

 

[JCBrum]

All the tried and tested methods are there, as well as cheap ready availability of frames and wax ......

It has the insulation and weather shielding for winter use, and it looks pretty !

 

[JCBrum]

A set of external WBC lifts are the perfect sustainable answer to the use of polystyrene insulation in other systems, and provide lots of nice wooden bits for you to make and sell ...... and users to take pride in

 

[Black Comb]

I believe the ammount of cells on 11..... 14x12s are 81,774.. of course some are obscured by the frame.

So this is bigger than a jumbo langstroth which has 78000 cells on 10 frames.

Decisions decisions.

 

[JCBrum]

How sad is this ................

I've just counted the no of cells on one of my ED Nat (14x12) frames ....

Not even Fris would do this .......

There are 59 cells across, and 60 rows down ......

Thats 77,880 cells on 11 frames.

 

[JCBrum]

And 14x12's are the perfect shape for a near-spherical brood nest !

 

[Frisbee]

Not even Fris would do this .......

I might just so...............



Fris

 

[JCBrum]

ooh hello, missed you lately ! xx J

 

[MJBee]

I started back in the stone age with 1 WBC (bought) and made another two. This was fine for a few years but when I wanted to increase I decided to change to Nationals for ease of manipulation but keeping frame interchange- ability. It wasn't until we moved to France that we found the National too small - milder weather and longer overall season = more brood.- So I changed to Commercial. It is possible to modify a National frame to fit into a commercial by cutting a bit off each lug and wiring it inside an empty Commercial frame using plastic covered garden wire, so I still have a degree of interchange-ability. I still run two double brood Nationals which I use for Queen rearing.

Summary:- Go for what YOU want but be prepared to change further down the line
Mike
PS Just sold my WBCs for £50 each - cedar does last if it is looked after

 

[Hivemaker.]

JC., my foundation is 59 across,63 deep.

 

[JCBrum]

Lucky old you !!

Mine is a bit shorter, but it's what you do with it that counts, .. eh Fris ??

 

[Frisbee]

Mine is a bit shorter, but it's what you do with it that counts, .. eh Fris ??

Absolutely...............

What're we talking about?

Fris

 

[JCBrum]

Whether or not you should measure it !

Just go with what you've got is my motto, ...... you've got nats, ........

...... ever thought about 12" ones ? or is that a bit ambitious for you ?

.

 

[Frisbee]

....... ever thought about 10" ones ? or is that a bit ambitious for you ?

I think about them all the time

But had to go with what I was given

You'll have Admin chasing you again......................

Fris

 

[JCBrum]

Lovely, ......

you're right ....

I'll sit and dream ....



J