wax glands ( photos)

[TBRNoTB]

thank you so much for sharing , these photos are just amazing.

 

[VEG]

well the bees are obviously drawing wax as they are secreting wax to build the cells.

 

[Skyhook]

Great pictures, yes, but I would interpret them differently:

These bees are not secreting wax while they are being photographed. These are bees that were not kept warm enough during wax secretion and their little slithers of wax solidified whilst being pushed out form the glands.
Now they are impossible to remove and the poor bee is stuck with them.

I have watched the process of wax secretion in my observation hive, and the bee usually does it while festooning with others, suspended by the front legs and catching the slithers of wax with her back legs, then passing them up, chewing them to shape and adding them to the comb.

The bees in the photos are not in that position, they just cannot get rid of the solidified platelets. I think this is to do with the small size of the apidea, the small number of bees in there is not enough to keep the temperature hot enough to allow for all the wax to be processed in time.

You may be right. But it occurs to me that the wax must solidify before the bee picks it up, otherwise it would come off as a droplet not a scale; in which case I can see no reason why these would not be removeable.

.

 

[Stromnessbees]

You may be right. But it occurs to me that the wax must solidify before the bee picks it up, otherwise it would come off as a droplet not a scale; in which case I can see no reason why these would not be removeable.

.

It doesn't need to be fully melted to still be malleable.
I think it's a delicate process where all the conditions need to be just right for it to work properly.
I am not sure, but I think the bee produces one soft platelet at a time and has to take it away quickly so it won't attach.
Sometimes the bee drops it by mistake, that's why you often find fresh, clear bits of wax on the hive floor.

 

[oliver90owner]

the wax must solidify

Wax melts around 62 Celsius!

It doesn't need to be fully melted to still be malleable

You don't have malleable liquids. Malleability is a characteristic of solids!

 

[Stromnessbees]

the wax must solidify

Wax melts around 62 Celsius!

It doesn't need to be fully melted to still be malleable

You don't have malleable liquids. Malleability is a characteristic of solids!

Maybe I should have used a different term.

I am just making the point that the bees in the photo were not secreting wax when the picture was taken.

Wax secretion is a fascinating process and I don't claim to fully understand it. Maybe I'll research it a bit more when I have time.

 

[Stromnessbees]

from Wikipedia:

In materials science, ductility is a solid material's ability to deform under tensile stress; this is often characterized by the material's ability to be stretched into a wire. Malleability, a similar property, is a material's ability to deform under compressive stress; this is often characterized by the material's ability to form a thin sheet by hammering or rolling. Both of these mechanical properties are aspects of plasticity, the extent to which a solid material can be plastically deformed without fracture. Also, these material properties are dependent on temperature and pressure ...

So which term applies?

The bees won't have molten wax inside them as that would require the 62 degrees C mentioned above.

So we are talking about a solid which has to be squeezed out of the glands, and I think, the warmer the bee is the easier the process.

Maybe there are some thermal images available which show the temperatures involved and which parts of the bees heat up most?
I imagine there will be some heat exchanger involved, as we saw it a while ago in the Heater Bee discussion.
(I followed that one on a different forum though.)

 

[oliver90owner]

So we are talking about a solid which has to be squeezed out of the glands

I don't know the reaction path-way, but maybe it is akin to 2 component paints, glues, etc, where the components are catalised (or enzymed') at the point of production - so not developed to the final form inside the glands.

the warmer the bee is the easier the process

We all(?) know bees don't draw comb if it is too cold. No comb drawing equates to no wax secreted. So better to say it is only possible when warm enough.

 

[BeeJayBee]

Astonishingly good pictures Keith.

as an aside :-

Dictionary definition of malleable http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/malleable

malleable - Pronunciation: /ˈmalɪəb(ə)l/
adjective
(of a metal or other material) able to be hammered or pressed into shape without breaking or cracking:
a malleable metal can be beaten into a sheet

Origin:
late Middle English (in the sense 'able to be hammered'): via Old French from medieval Latin malleabilis, from Latin malleus 'a hammer'

and
http://westmtnapiary.com/hive_products.html

Technical beeswax facts:
Stable chemical makeup that essentially remains constant over time
Chemical formula: C15 H31 CO2 C30 H61
Insoluable in water, density 0.95
Becomes brittle below 64°.
Becomes soft and pliable above 95 ° to 104°.
Melting point 149°, highest melting point of any known wax
Does not deteriorate over time (usable wax found in ancient tombs)

and
http://www.beeswaxco.com/howBeesMakeWax.htm

..... it should be no surprise that other worker bees are willing to remove the wax scales from their neighbors and then chew them. The other method is for the same bee extruding the wax to process her own wax scales. This is done using one hind leg to move a wax scale to the first pair of legs (forelegs). A foreleg then makes the final transfer to the mandibles where it is masticated, and then applied to the comb being constructed or repaired.

 

[nonstandard]

Great pictures, yes, but I would interpret them differently:

These bees are not secreting wax while they are being photographed..........Now they are impossible to remove and the poor bee is stuck with them.

.......the bee usually does it while festooning with others, .......

The bees in the photos are not in that position, they just cannot get rid of the solidified platelets.

Surely we have to consider the fact that the bees in question have been disturbed in the middle of wax building, the apidea has been opened and the frame removed so the bees are not in their normal state. Short of drilling a few holes in the apidea and investing in some very expensive photography equipment you are unlikely to see wax secretion and building in the raw.

 

[tonybloke]

 

[Skyhook]

from Wikipedia:
So which term applies?

The bees won't have molten wax inside them as that would require the 62 degrees C mentioned above.

So we are talking about a solid which has to be squeezed out of the glands, and I think, the warmer the bee is the easier the process.

The wax is formed as a liquid which flows onto the wax mirrors where it sets- I'm not sure what the chemical process is.

 

[Stromnessbees]

Surely we have to consider the fact that the bees in question have been disturbed in the middle of wax building, the apidea has been opened and the frame removed so the bees are not in their normal state. Short of drilling a few holes in the apidea and investing in some very expensive photography equipment you are unlikely to see wax secretion and building in the raw.

I once kept a rather small swarm in my back yard, just a few meters from the sea where it is always a bit windy. The bees tried their best to build comb, but I noticed quite a few bees that showed these solidified wax platelets attached to their abdomen. I saw them inside the hive and coming and going at the entrance.

So it's not just a snapshot event caught in a disturbed hive, these platelets are stuck to the bees for a prolonged period.

In photo No. 3 the bee is clearly not intending to produce wax at the time. She is sticking her head into a cell, probably to suck some honey as her comb has been taken out of the apidea.

 

[bees4u]

great pictures

these are great photos, well done

 

[keith pierce]

Great pictures, yes, but I would interpret them differently:

These are bees that were not kept warm enough during wax secretion and their little slithers of wax solidified whilst being pushed out form the glands.
Now they are impossible to remove and the poor bee is stuck with them.

The bees in the photos are not in that position, they just cannot get rid of the solidified platelets. I think this is to do with the small size of the apidea, the small number of bees in there is not enough to keep the temperature hot enough to allow for all the wax to be processed in time.

You may be right as they are not bursting with bees, but certinally have enought bees to have the 3 strips of wax completly drawn out before the queen comes into lay. But after reading you post , i checked the apideas and i could feel the heat coming off them throught the perspex crown board.

 

[keith pierce]

In photo No. 3 the bee is clearly not intending to produce wax at the time. She is sticking her head into a cell, probably to suck some honey as her comb has been taken out of the apidea.

This could possibly be a reaction to the comb been out of the apidea for an unreasonable amount of time as i got the camera ready.I would presume that they would not continue with comb building when the frame comes out.

 

[Stromnessbees]

Just take a bit of time and watch the entrance of the apidea:

You should be able to see the bees with the wax platelets stuck to them coming and going, getting nectar etc.

 

[sainfoin]

Surely the bee would not be 'stuck' with these platelets in place - the next plate extruded would push these out of the way/carry these bits too?

 

[Stromnessbees]

Surely the bee would not be 'stuck' with these platelets in place - the next plate extruded would push these out of the way/carry these bits too?

One indication that this obviously isn't the case, is that you see so many platelets attached to the bee.

The bee doesn't push out more than one or two (?) platelets at a time, as it wouldn't be able to deal with them all at once.

Yet the bees in the picutures have got several platelets attached, so they must have accumulated there.

I don't know how many platelets can be produced per gland/mirror over the productive time of a bee and if a new platelet can push an old one out of the way. - Any data on that would be appreciated.

 

[Skyhook]

One indication that this obviously isn't the case, is that you see so many platelets attached to the bee.

The bee doesn't push out more than one or two (?) platelets at a time, as it wouldn't be able to deal with them all at once.

Yet the bees in the picutures have got several platelets attached, so they must have accumulated there.

I don't know how many platelets can be produced per gland/mirror over the productive time of a bee and if a new platelet can push an old one out of the way. - Any data on that would be appreciated.

Really? That would seem to indicate that the bees have complete voluntary cindividual control over each gland. It would seem more likely that the process stops and starts as a whole, more akin to sweating. As for dealing with the platelets, wax building is a team effort.

.