Wasps

[Karol]

Yep agree! We've got the smaller wasps but they are maybe 5 or 6 around floor below hive picking off dead bees, none attempting entrance although entrance is highly reduced and busy!

In hunting mode! Very interesting. Might be a 2nd progeny run or they haven't matured yet in which case you might still get hit.

 

[dogrun]

wasps everywhere,

over the last fortnight iv been seeing a lot of wasps about,been looking for the nest but cant find it,they've been playing hell with a new hive iv got,iv been putting some food in for the bees and I think the wasps got smell of it,and because they are a new colony I don't think there's enough bees in there to fend them off,i open the hive yesterday and found about 30 dead bees and about 20 dead wasps,i felt as sck as a pig,so I put a couple of bottle traps around the back of the hive with some coca cola in them and some treaclearound the top,ckecked them abit earlier and bottles are filling up a treat with those wasps,perhaps my new little girls will have some peace now.

 

[Karol]

over the last fortnight iv been seeing a lot of wasps about,been looking for the nest but cant find it,they've been playing hell with a new hive iv got,iv been putting some food in for the bees and I think the wasps got smell of it,and because they are a new colony I don't think there's enough bees in there to fend them off,i open the hive yesterday and found about 30 dead bees and about 20 dead wasps,i felt as sck as a pig,so I put a couple of bottle traps around the back of the hive with some coca cola in them and some treaclearound the top,ckecked them abit earlier and bottles are filling up a treat with those wasps,perhaps my new little girls will have some peace now.

Oh dear! Not sure the bottle traps are a clever idea.

Wasp traps work on two levels. A wasp trap has to attract wasps to work - that goes without saying. However, how it attracts them is critical. The preferred level of attraction is limited by the physical constraints of the trap, i.e. it only attracts wasps within it's physical limitations of lure dispersal, i.e. measured in 10s or low 100s of meters. This is good. The thing to avoid at all cost with wasp traps is what I call communicable attraction. This is where a trap attracts wasps from beyond its physical limitations, i.e. scouting wasps get in and feed, escape and then go back to their nest to recruit more wasps. These traps can attract wasps from upto 3km away and attract more wasps than they kill. Put such traps next to a hive and all I can say is poor bees!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xllp6LCgFQ"]Wasp bottle trap showing escaping wasps - YouTube[/ame]

 

[PBee]

Oh dear! Not sure the bottle traps are a clever idea.
..................

.... or any other type of wasp trap around an apiary. Simply keep entrances reduced to a minimum for less than full strength hives and, if feeding is necessary, feed at nightfall.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Oh dear! Not sure the bottle traps are a clever idea.

Wasp traps work on two levels. A wasp trap has to attract wasps to work - that goes without saying. However, how it attracts them is critical. The preferred level of attraction is limited by the physical constraints of the trap, i.e. it only attracts wasps within it's physical limitations of lure dispersal, i.e. measured in 10s or low 100s of meters. This is good. The thing to avoid at all cost with wasp traps is what I call communicable attraction. This is where a trap attracts wasps from beyond its physical limitations, i.e. scouting wasps get in and feed, escape and then go back to their nest to recruit more wasps. These traps can attract wasps from upto 3km away and attract more wasps than they kill. Put such traps next to a hive and all I can say is poor bees!

Wasp bottle trap showing escaping wasps - YouTube

The video does not match actual results in my locality. Watching my bottle traps with water, a drop of washing up liquid and a spoonful of jam or apple sauce in the water shows wasps entering the trap and drowning. I have yet to see one find its way back out to bring others.
I suspect the top of the video trap has been annointed with syrup outside the trap space which accounts for the excessive numbers in the entrance but not going further in.

 

[Karol]

The video does not match actual results in my locality. Watching my bottle traps with water, a drop of washing up liquid and a spoonful of jam or apple sauce in the water shows wasps entering the trap and drowning. I have yet to see one find its way back out to bring others.
I suspect the top of the video trap has been annointed with syrup outside the trap space which accounts for the excessive numbers in the entrance but not going further in.

I couldn't say but don't think so. This trap was put up at an amusement park and was responsible for a few hundred visitors being stung at the entrance to an ice cream kiosk. It took precisely 50 minutes to sort out the area so that it was wasp free and thereafter there were no other wasp stings for the rest of the season.

I agree with your observations regarding the pop bottle trap but what you describe are the early stages of performance. Adding detergent works initially and many of the initial wasps will die. However all wasps have hollow abdomens which means they all float when they drown. This creates a raft which prevents more wasps from drowning and allows wasps to learn their way out and one of the ways they do this is by laying down cuticular peptides (a bit like what ants do with ant trails) so it becomes progressively easier for them to escape later in the life cycle of the trap which probably explains the phenomenon you describe rather than the application of food to the bottle neck. The trap also works differently at low light when less of the wasps are drawn to the rim recess so again more of them escape at dusk.

 

[Karol]

<snip>I suspect the top of the video trap has been annointed with syrup outside the trap space which accounts for the excessive numbers in the entrance but not going further in.

Oh and PS I forgot to say, escaping wasps will preen themselves when they leave the trap to get rid of the sticky coating on their bodies and the inverted bottle head provides a convenient platform for them to do so. This also results in sweet bait liquid being deposited (by the preening wasps) in this area which then attracts wasps to the outside of the trap.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

I couldn't say but don't think so. This trap was put up at an amusement park and was responsible for a few hundred visitors being stung at the entrance to an ice cream kiosk. It took precisely 50 minutes to sort out the area so that it was wasp free and thereafter there were no other wasp stings for the rest of the season.

I agree with your observations regarding the pop bottle trap but what you describe are the early stages of performance. Adding detergent works initially and many of the initial wasps will die. However all wasps have hollow abdomens which means they all float when they drown. This creates a raft which prevents more wasps from drowning and allows wasps to learn their way out and one of the ways they do this is by laying down cuticular peptides (a bit like what ants do with ant trails) so it becomes progressively easier for them to escape later in the life cycle of the trap which probably explains the phenomenon you describe rather than the application of food to the bottle neck. The trap also works differently at low light when less of the wasps are drawn to the rim recess so again more of them escape at dusk.

Your observation do not agree with the practicality of my use. We must agree to differ

 

[Roola]

In hunting mode! Very interesting. Might be a 2nd progeny run or they haven't matured yet in which case you might still get hit.

Amazingly the wasps are STILL picking off dead/injured bees below hive, very few have tried to go into hive! No interest in sweet stuff!

 

[Karol]

Amazingly the wasps are STILL picking off dead/injured bees below hive, very few have tried to go into hive! No interest in sweet stuff!

Normally we expect all species to mature within days of each other but the adverse weather conditions over the past couple of years has upset the apple cart. Out of interest do you know what species of wasp? I suspect it's probably Vulgaris germanica which tends to nest in the ground and is the larger of wasps that we have plus is characterized by three dots on the face and a row of diamonds on the abdomen with two discreet parallel rows of dots one either side of the diamonds.

 

[Little John]

Just want to thank Karol for the explanations about wasp scouting behaviour viz-a-viz the placing of traps. I've had a modified bottle trap downwind of some hives which appears to have worked rather well - just a few bodies in the liquid, but no wasps bothering around those hives (which is what counts ...).

In contrast, another bunch of hives some distance away have been under siege, and I noticed that the little sods were 'walking straight in' around an anti-robbing mesh which has done sterling service thus far in keeping robber bees out of a NUC. Wasps really are clever little sods. So I closed-up the entrance for a couple of days, until they 'went off the boil'.

In my situation, I think the primary attractant has been some plum trees, which have dropped their fruit, the smell of fermentation from which is quite 'heady'.

I have begun to see that the problem of wasps is indeed solvable, albeit requiring some careful planning.

LJ

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

In hunting mode! Very interesting. Might be a 2nd progeny run or they haven't matured yet in which case you might still get hit.

Still more interested in picking off bee corpses around my hive than in raiding stores.

roola - snap!

 

[oliver90owner]

LJ,

Avoidable would be a better term than solvable, I think. I know what you mean but others may not. Avoidance is a far better ploy than trying to stop them once they home in on a hive, as your first para. indicates.

 

[victor meldrew]

LJ,

Avoidable would be a better term than solvable, I think. I know what you mean but others may not. Avoidance is a far better ploy than trying to stop them once they home in on a hive, as your first para. indicates.

Avoidance is fine in theory but difficult in practice .
Bees die /are evicted around the hive . Wasps scavenge on dead bees ,leaving scent trails to attract other wasps .
Apiary cleanliness is fine as is keeping colonies strong but once a hive has been singled out by wasps for attention then that is what it gets , regardless of the Beekeepers knowledge!
Not all Beekeepers have the luxury of having their bees on the doorstep.
Havoc can be rained down on a colony double quick . Fine on the last visit ; decimated by the next.
!'d like a sure fire way of avoiding that please!
VM

 

[oliver90owner]

I didn't say that. All I said was that avoidance is easier than solving the problem after wasps start entering the hive. The carniverous part of the wasp nest development is not a problem, as Karol has stated so often.

I think you need to read LJ's post again.

 

[Roola]

Normally we expect all species to mature within days of each other but the adverse weather conditions over the past couple of years has upset the apple cart. Out of interest do you know what species of wasp? I suspect it's probably Vulgaris germanica which tends to nest in the ground and is the larger of wasps that we have plus is characterized by three dots on the face and a row of diamonds on the abdomen with two discreet parallel rows of dots one either side of the diamonds.

Interstingly its not, these ones are really quite small I think.

 

[Tom Bick]

I helped someone with a hive yesterday autumn preparations ect the hive is not large and no obvious interest from wasps despite what looks like a bussy wasp nest approx fifty feet away under roof tiles. I am a bit worried about this as I suspect the wasps may eventually become more interested. I don't know what's best let nature take its cause or recommend to kill the wasps.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Interstingly its not, these ones are really quite small I think.

Ditto

And

"The carniverous part of the wasp nest development is not a problem"

I disagree: I have seen wasps picking off workers as they come out of the hives.

 

[oliver90owner]

I disagree: I have seen wasps picking off workers as they come out of the hives

How many? A few of 50 000 is not a real problem, just an Imaginary one.

Wasps entering the hive and destroying the colony in a few days is in a completely different league.

But disagree, by all means, if you are worried by such as that.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

But colony destruction (as opposed to honey robbing) is carniverous.