Wasps

[enigmatica]

All this discussion has prompted me to investigate what my wasps are doing currently. I may not have my bees yet but I do have wasps. A good long stroll along my hedgerows revealed a mixture of hunting activity and gorging on blackberries. Earlier in the year I removed all the obvious proto nests that were being built too close to home. I've kept one perfect one in a jar just to marvel at it's beauty.

I can see how their behaviour could be used against them when they become foe rather than friend. I think that when I come to feed I'll be very careful not to spill anything sweet near the hives. I wonder whether masking scents could be used or whether perhaps deterrent scents exist.

 

[victor meldrew]

I didn't say that. All I said was that avoidance is easier than solving the problem after wasps start entering the hive. The carniverous part of the wasp nest development is not a problem, as Karol has stated so often.

I think you need to read LJ's post again.

I quoted you verbatim because I know how to use the quote button!
I think you ought to drop your arrogant stance and practice what you so provocatively preach!
Talking down to people elevates your stature not a whit !
VM

 

[oliver90owner]

You really need to read posts in context. That was a direct reply to LJ. Simple point about 'wordology'.

Seems to be a failing on the forum from old a new alike.

Unfortunately knowing how to use it and when are two unconnected items for some.

My post had absolutely nothing to do with wasps and carnivorous behaviout. Perhaps you either missed that subtelty or are just trying to be, err, wide.

 

[victor meldrew]

Er!
Is that post intended for me?
I assume so as is follows hard on the heels of my last post as indeed was the post I quoted!
Now who's being 'wide'?
Vm

 

[ichbinpaul]

There was some good news for me concerning Jaspers to date! every one of my Nukes and Lang's have had problems with them, one of the Lang's was severely attacked and one Nuke wiped out in one and a half day's.

But for all of those who dislike Top Bar Hives! I had no major problems with Jaspers on my TBH a few yellow carcases outside on the floor, I saw short skirmishes on the small landing board with quick balling of a jasper twice, I put this in part down to the use of the entrance I made as advised by Phil Chandler on Youtube, it is not on the end but at the end of one long side with 1" entrance holes up high about 3" from the top and covered on the outside with a plywood cover and bringing the entrance back down to near the bottom with a small landing board and adjustable entrance closer, so there is an area for the bees to travel up to the original entrance holes of about 6" maintaining a crawl area from entrance to entrance holes of about 1/2" X 4".

I will take a picture if anyone is interested, I think that running this gauntlet may be too much for the Jaspers!? or does anyone think that I may have calm bee's that are particularly war like to real enemies??

 

[enigmatica]

I'd be intrigued to see the pictures. Thanks!

 

[victor meldrew]

Dartington floor has the same!no fly zone allowing guards to intercept .
I use them exclusively on my 14x12s
Vm

 

[ichbinpaul]

Dartington floor has the same!no fly zone allowing guards to intercept .
I use them exclusively on my 14x12s
Vm

I see, looking at the dartington the difference seems to be crawl space of around 6" of enclosed space on my TBH, whereas it looks like 1.5" to 2" wont this make a big difference Victor.

 

[victor meldrew]

I see, looking at the dartington the difference seems to be crawl space of around 6" of enclosed space on my TBH, whereas it looks like 1.5" to 2" wont this make a big difference Victor.

I should think a colony that can't successfully defend a ten m/m slot the full width of the hive is indeed a weak colony?
Since using Dartington type floors I've dispensed with mouse guards . Two cold Winters and no mouse problems ! Suits me
Accuracy is the key, I use the shank of a 10 m/m drill as a slot gauge .
VM

 

[oliver90owner]

The landing board on a Dartington is 95 x 368mm. Only about 80mm is in use as the landing entry. The bees then negotiate the vertical rise of 63mm ( the mesh battens) through an 8mm wide slot at the upper end past the 18mm floor section. The entrance can easily be attenuated with simple wooden blocks to shorten it to any length desired and also one can make the crawl length to the floor batten any reduced depth one chooses.

Seems rather more adjustable than your fixed entry on the tbh. I've never yet had wasp problems with my Dartingtons, apart from aborting one very late split which would have been annihilated.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

By the way, there was some discussion a year or so back about using Vicks, TCP etc to deter robbers. eg http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=12652 I put some Vicks instead of Vaseline on my OMF board just because (it's a thymol product) and it might help v wasps if the earlier threads are any guide. Any "no No NOOO"s out there?

 

[Little John]

[ ... ] the entrance I made as advised by Phil Chandler on Youtube, it is not on the end but at the end of one long side with 1" entrance holes up high about 3" from the top and covered on the outside with a plywood cover and bringing the entrance back down to near the bottom with a small landing board and adjustable entrance closer, so there is an area for the bees to travel up to the original entrance holes of about 6" maintaining a crawl area from entrance to entrance holes of about 1/2" X 4".

Seems to me that these 'dog-leg' or 'periscope' entrances could be installed in either of two ways: high position on the exterior, with low inside; or low position on the exterior with high inside.

Either format would prevent warm air from convecting out of the hive - so is there anything to choose between them in practice ?

LJ

 

[ichbinpaul]

Seems to me that these 'dog-leg' or 'periscope' entrances could be installed in either of two ways: high position on the exterior, with low inside; or low position on the exterior with high inside.

Either format would prevent warm air from convecting out of the hive - so is there anything to choose between them in practice ?

LJ

Oh yes I forgot to mention this heat retaining factor, and that the veroa will not be dropping onto bees coming into the hive from outside where they are discarded from cleaning! so I supose the termination up high internally is probably premium, and a hive can be worked on from the outside somewhat if it is a retrofit, "just remember to take your drill off hammer" when a grandson has been helpng !!!

 

[Karol]

Interstingly its not, these ones are really quite small I think.

Thank you for that. Very interesting. Just to clarify, do they take the whole bee or just the abdomen?

 

[Karol]

Avoidance is fine in theory but difficult in practice .
Bees die /are evicted around the hive . Wasps scavenge on dead bees ,leaving scent trails to attract other wasps .
Apiary cleanliness is fine as is keeping colonies strong but once a hive has been singled out by wasps for attention then that is what it gets , regardless of the Beekeepers knowledge!
Not all Beekeepers have the luxury of having their bees on the doorstep.
Havoc can be rained down on a colony double quick . Fine on the last visit ; decimated by the next.
!'d like a sure fire way of avoiding that please!
VM

I'm afraid forum rules prevent me from answering your last question.

 

[Roola]

Thank you for that. Very interesting. Just to clarify, do they take the whole bee or just the abdomen?

They don't seem big enough to be able to lift a whole bee. They seem to be chewing away on them biting bits off when I've seen them if that's any help?

 

[PBee]

...... Out of interest do you know what species of wasp? I suspect it's probably Vulgaris germanica which tends to nest in the ground and is the larger of wasps that we have plus is characterized by three dots on the face and a row of diamonds on the abdomen with two discreet parallel rows of dots one either side of the diamonds.

Abdominal markings can vary even within a colony, and the facial marks on germanica are not always distinct.

A good resource for identification of social wasps of the British Isles ....... http://www.eakringbirds.com/eakringbirds2/insectswaspsidentification.htm

The use of abdominal markings an an identification aid seems very limited in our experience. Common Wasp (Vespula vulgaris) workers certainly show considerable variation in the amount and shape of any black on each Tergum, which is well illustrated by the abdomens of three vulgaris workers taken from a single colony shown below, but note the extreme similarity to that of the worker germanica.

 

[Karol]

They don't seem big enough to be able to lift a whole bee. They seem to be chewing away on them biting bits off when I've seen them if that's any help?

The reason I ask is because we have a suspicion that sweet feeding wasps will take the abdomens of bees leaving the rest of the thorax and head because the abdomens contain nectar. Hunting wasps do the same but they also tend to take the whole bee minus limbs and antennae.

 

[PBee]

.......we have a suspicion that sweet feeding wasps will take the abdomens of bees leaving the rest of the thorax and head because the abdomens contain nectar. Hunting wasps do the same but they also tend to take the whole bee minus limbs and antennae.

It seems unusual that wasps would expend extra energy bringing back whole abdomens just to extract possible nectar contents.

From the study below, there is no clear trend in the load composition of wasps (inc. V. germanica) scavenging bee corpses ...

Load-Lifting Capacities of Three Species of Yellowjackets (Vespula) Foraging on Honey-Bee Corpses http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2390561?uid=3738232&uid=2134&uid=4581118267&uid=2&uid=70&uid=3&uid=4581118257&uid=60&sid=21102638299987

 

[madasafish]

Seems to me that these 'dog-leg' or 'periscope' entrances could be installed in either of two ways: high position on the exterior, with low inside; or low position on the exterior with high inside.

Either format would prevent warm air from convecting out of the hive - so is there anything to choose between them in practice ?

LJ

In my experience periscope entrances prevent undertaker bees working properly.

I have discarded bot my trial ones and will not use them again.