Wasp overrun & Absondment

[Markthebuilder]

Arrived home from holls 3am checked hives 7am one previously week hive with a questionable queen completely empty all. Comb dry but lots of wasps present.

2.45pm discovers queen and pile of bees in middle of yard.

Placed in nuc with some honey drizzled onto previously dry comb and put a Patti into ash forth type feeder above. Nuc not cared about 6 feet from original hive position

Advice please photos are of the bees to give an indication of numbers

 

[Erichalfbee]

Can you dummy the frames down to two? I might even risk giving them a frame of emerging brood

 

[Markthebuilder]

For clarity I have put them in a bs polly 6 frame nuc .I just used the brood box in picture to gather them up.
I could cut up and fit some king-span to reduce the size of the nuc if that the best advice and will help them build up before winter../ get them through
I don’t have any Colonies I would want to rob brood off.
I’m undecided / unclear when and if to combine with her daughter colony who is in a 14x12 nuc but only mated at end of July// beginning of august
I am also unclear… on how many seams of bees it is prudent to try take through winter .

 

[user 819]

I have taken two/three seams of bees in nuc thru winters ( if you can call them that now) in insulated wooden nucs. As long as they are healthy, warm/dry and have stores they should be ok.

 

[Worker bee]

Put them back and keep feed on them. Insulate them outside and in the roof. They will Suprise you

 

[Ian123]

I’m about to make some Nucs up this morning. A frame of brood and a nice dry box will go a long way. Nucs normally need some more attention with food be prepared to monitor levels and if needed feed little and often. You can overwinter a couple of handfuls of bees, the more you can increase that the better.

 

[Markthebuilder]

Thanks for the replies. As frames were dry I have given them some 1:1 a Pattie and an , apiagaurd treatment I have closed the entrance down to a couple of bee slots.
When wether improves I will see where they are at
In all respects it will be a good test of the queen who has been in doubt but she got a week colony through last winter and her bees are gentle so I am happy to give her a chance whilst I have spare equipment. And a couple of other nucs to make genuine comparisons with.

 

[Markthebuilder]

Well the 1:1 may have been a mistake or I overdid the dribble onto the frames and it’s run out the floor . anyway I appear to have initiated a robbing frenzy. Closed it up completely and put some wet frames from extracting on the other side of yard which appears to have created enough of a distraction for now

 

[North End Bees]

In all respects it will be a good test of the queen who has been in doubt but she got a week colony through last winter and her bees are gentle so I am happy to give her a chance whilst I have spare equipment.

If it were me I would let her go and use the bees to bolster one of your other colonies. You've already said that none of the other colonies is overly strong anyway.

Thing is, this queen was weak last winter and she's now a year older. What are the realistic chances of her making it through to spring?

 

[Wilco]

I have taken two/three seams of bees in nuc thru winters ( if you can call them that now) in insulated wooden nucs. As long as they are healthy, warm/dry and have stores they should be ok.

Likewise. Had about a 2 frame nuc on a solid floor which overwintered well and came out strong this spring.

 

[Markthebuilder]

If it were me I would let her go and use the bees to bolster one of your other colonies. You've already said that none of the other colonies is overly strong anyway.

Thing is, this queen was weak last winter and she's now a year older. What are the realistic chances of her making it through to spring?

I think you are correct. I originally kept her back as Inshurance in case her daughters didn’t make it but 1 seams ok .
It’s all a learning curve. … it would be easiest to unite now with no brood, but
I am intregued to see how well the queen lays / develops frames of brood over the next couple of weeks IF at all. I believe I will still have time to unite befor winter.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

Well the 1:1 may have been a mistake or I overdid the dribble onto the frames and it’s run out the floor . anyway I appear to have initiated a robbing frenzy. Closed it up completely and put some wet frames from extracting on the other side of yard which appears to have created enough of a distraction for now

If the wet frames are close by (within 50 - 100 metres) it will set off robbing. The reason is that bees will come back and dance to tell their sisters there's food out there. However the waggle dance only works with distances of around 100 metres plus and the round dance, used for short distances, does not give direction. So the bees just know there's food somewhere nearby - so they look wherever they can - including the colony you want to protect, potentially.
This is why you should not leave super frames out or dribble syrup on the grass.

 

[Markthebuilder]

Thing is, this queen was weak last winter and she's now a year older. What are the realistic chances of her making it through to spring?

She was a VQ last September. And I split her hive 3 ways in may I think as thought they were trying to supersede her, I was worried she wasn’t very productive and I was concerns about chalk brood and cbpv , I now believe following info from this forum that the cells were probebly swam, so more indicative of a thriving hive/ not enough space??? 14 x 12 but probably to much stores and to late with a sups in spring????, After more research I discovered hairless black shiney bees are associated with a french strain / symptom of cbpv but not uk there weren’t many dead bees (normal) or less than winter losses and no bees I’ve seen that wen’t able to fly normally or stops just shaking on top bars etc, so I have discounted that, chalk brood … no evidence since the split but there hasn’t been much brood . This could be her productivity or a symptom of my interference etc.
Lastly she is a granddauter of my first hive and as said before v genital bees.

bottom line she now has 3 clean combs 1 frame of pollen 3 seams of bees a UB Pattie and some syrup . I figure I can give her a month to show her worth.

 

[Markthebuilder]

Can you dummy the frames down to two? I might even risk giving them a frame of emerging brood

I have put a block of insulation all edges taped up. leavening me with 4 frames looks like 3 seams of bees maybe 4

 

[pargyle]

If you don't sort the robbing it will be a dead out in no time... that's going to be hard with the frenzy you have already created the odds are that if the nuc us anywhere near the spot they were originally being robbed then the robbers will find them ....to stand a chance you probably need to move them..