Wally Shaw's snelgrove 2

[drex]

Two days ago, for the first time, I tried this out on several of my colonies. I was caught out by a sudden honey flow, and my BB's were getting honey bound ( double brood), and found early charged queen cells. All went well with stage one.
As per instructions I put existing supers on the new box on old site. However, orientation flights have started outside the old boxes. Any new foragers will have little room for nectar. As they will have few foragers, will the nurses eat sufficient stores and make room , or should I add supers to the old boxes too? I know it is warm, but the weather is set to cool, and I do not want to add, what Finmann calls, " vain space"

 

[idg]

I too have tried this for the first time this week so not sure if my answer is qualified. However, I would have expected that whatever foragers start to bring in, will be balanced by the loss off stores consumed by the nurse bees and brood.
Indeed I have gone the other way and added an entrance feeder with 1:1 syrup to tide them over until the foragers find their bearings.

 

[drex]

The opposite is my problem. Too many stores in the original BB's. Queen is still in there. Two empty combs were added at the time of the split, but do not want her running out of laying space, and the newly promoted foragers will be bringing in more nectar. I wondered if I put an empty super on top, would they move up the stores?

 

[Finman]

.
I have carry in my car and I am carrying vain space from hives. Like that one box langstroth hive. 5 frames brood and 5 frame capped winterfood.

Another nuc. 6 frames: 3 frames brood and 3 frames pollen.

I move the the nuc one pollen frame to bigger hive, and empty frame instead.

Then to 10 frame hive 2 frame stores and others brood frames and empty frames.


So, in this case hives have vain space as a form of capped winter food.

Problem is that it takes 1-2 weeks that bees get new workers. Now it is 24C.
.splended week behind.

.10 kg capped food off from the bigger hive.

.

 

[Obee1]

Welcome to the new snelliedtwo club. I did my first two last week - mine are on OSR so the colonies grew fast and started swarm preps. I put the supers on the new box for returning foragers but did notice upon returning today that there is some foraging going on in the parent colony. So ... Good question. Do we need supers on the parent colony. I'm thinking I will go pop a super on mine. Incidentally mine seem to be dismantling the swarm cells that were in the parent colony (it's day3).

 

[idg]

. Incidentally mine seem to be dismantling the swarm cells that were in the parent colony (it's day3).

That's the idea. Swarm preps have definitely been squashed if they take them all down.

 

[Fatbee]

Drex - are you using a Snelgrove Board? Those foragers can be bled down with changing entrances - worth doing in two or three days

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Drex - are you using a Snelgrove Board? Those foragers can be bled down with changing entrances - worth doing in two or three days

Wally Shaw's Snelgrove II method doesn't need a board - the Q+ side is placed a few feet away from the hive receiving all the flyers

 

[drex]

Welcome to the new snelliedtwo club. I did my first two last week - mine are on OSR so the colonies grew fast and started swarm preps. I put the supers on the new box for returning foragers but did notice upon returning today that there is some foraging going on in the parent colony. So ... Good question. Do we need supers on the parent colony. I'm thinking I will go pop a super on mine. Incidentally mine seem to be dismantling the swarm cells that were in the parent colony (it's day3).

THanks Obee,
That is what I am thinking I will do in the absence of any further advice, as having weighed the pros and cons that I can see, I think supers added to original boxes is the best way forward
Yes, JBM, I decided on setting up new box separate to old box, as could not be faffing with division boards, even if Wally does give it as an alternative. Besides it would have been a tall stack!

 

[Fatbee]

Division boards keep it nice and simple but everybody has their preferred ways. Saves me having to go to the gym lifting high stacks!

What I love about this method is how it seems counter-intuitive to what the traditional bee mantra says about leaving a queen with swarm cells(!) but when you think through the theory perfectly logical.

 

[Erichalfbee]

the traditional bee mantra says about leaving a queen with swarm cells(!) but when you think through the theory perfectly logical.

Yes, it's the forgers/scouts that initiate swarming and you take them away.
Neat solution

 

[Fritillary]

- So far so good with my sep. stands AS here:- Q cells with queen now gone and comb building (I didn't have comb to fill the gaps when I took away brood+eggs) going on in there at speed. MUST though remember to look at the foragers' half at the right time!!

 

[drex]

Decided to lift the lids on the queen right colonies to decide whether there were sufficient bees left to warrant adding a super as per my original question. The first colony had few bees flying, and on looking in there were not many bees. I looked further and there were several unsealed queen cells still. Could not see any eggs nor HM. Looks like this lot had swarmed anyway despite a by the book snelgrove 2. Now how do I proceed?????

The other two colonies, both had torn down the queen cells, and eggs seen and queen seen in one. However plenty of space for the bees left, with laying space, so did not add supers.

The bees will do what the bees will do!

 

[idg]

Decided to lift the lids on the queen right colonies to decide whether there were sufficient bees left to warrant adding a super as per my original question. The first colony had few bees flying, and on looking in there were not many bees. I looked further and there were several unsealed queen cells still. Could not see any eggs nor HM. Looks like this lot had swarmed anyway despite a by the book snelgrove 2. Now how do I proceed?????

The other two colonies, both had torn down the queen cells, and eggs seen and queen seen in one. However plenty of space for the bees left, with laying space, so did not add supers.

The bees will do what the bees will do!

From the instructions on the Wally Shaw method, I thought it had a very high success rate. I don't class 1 out of 3 particularly high. As for proceeding, if you are certain you have a hive without a queen, is it not best to single your queen cells down to one and leave? As they are not sealed, you should be able to pick one with a healthy grub.
I don't see what other options you have although others may suggest a route.

 

[drex]

From the instructions on the Wally Shaw method, I thought it had a very high success rate. I don't class 1 out of 3 particularly high.

Neither do I , but the bees will do what the bees will do. Yes, I think the best thing to do will be to thin down to one, destroy the qc,s which will have been made in the flying bees colony ( in the absence of nurses) and reunite. Any one else got better ideas?

 

[idg]

Neither do I , but the bees will do what the bees will do. Yes, I think the best thing to do will be to thin down to one, destroy the qc,s which will have been made in the flying bees colony ( in the absence of nurses) and reunite. Any one else got better ideas?

Why not use the ones in the nurse colony as per Wally Shaw?

 

[drex]

Sorry I was not clear, but that is my intention.

 

[Erichalfbee]

BTW...out of interest
All of you folk doing this "Wally"
Are you using drawn frames in the new box, foundation or a mixture of both?

 

[Fritillary]

Put in 2 combs with the first and for the rest, just top bars. For the AS today: no drawn comb to be had, so have fed (a little) and hope they will make comb with gusto! As a swarm would of course. But then a real swarm has a whole balanced mixture of bees, and this doesn't does it...

 

[Obee1]

Decided to lift the lids on the queen right colonies to decide whether there were sufficient bees left to warrant adding a super as per my original question. The first colony had few bees flying, and on looking in there were not many bees. I looked further and there were several unsealed queen cells still. Could not see any eggs nor HM. Looks like this lot had swarmed anyway despite a by the book snelgrove 2. Now how do I proceed?????

The other two colonies, both had torn down the queen cells, and eggs seen and queen seen in one. However plenty of space for the bees left, with laying space, so did not add supers.

The bees will do what the bees will do!

Join the club. Mine buggered off too! I found one sealed QC, some unsealed and no eggs or HM. I proceeded by becoming a dalek and exterminated all cells. My colony are horrid bees and I do not want a queen off them. I will requeen or join to a q+ colony.