Wally Shaw's snelgrove 2

[MuswellMetro]

Join the club. Mine buggered off too! I found one sealed QC, some unsealed and no eggs or HM. I proceeded by becoming a dalek and exterminated all cells. My colony are horrid bees and I do not want a queen off them. I will requeen or join to a q+ colony.

add a frame of eggs from a good colony

 

[bontbee]

add a frame of eggs from a good colony

Worked for me and the banshees!

 

[idg]

I too have tried this for the first time this week so not sure if my answer is qualified. However, I would have expected that whatever foragers start to bring in, will be balanced by the loss off stores consumed by the nurse bees and brood.
Indeed I have gone the other way and added an entrance feeder with 1:1 syrup to tide them over until the foragers find their bearings.

Everything seems on track with my Snelgrove 2 after 6 days. Parent colony has queen (I took the opportunity to mark her) and eggs. All qc's have been torn down. AS side has loads of queen cells, some capped.
My plan on Monday is to take down all the queen cells in AS and transfer queen from parent colony into there. Parent colony can then raise a new queen.

I have a question though. What is the best way to take a nuc from these hives? Would you just move 2 or 3 frames from parent colony after queen has been transferred so that nuc and parent both raise a queen?

 

[Glenviewbee]

I was wondering about the timescales involved in the Modified Wally S II - why the requirement to wait at least 9 days before returning the Q to the AS hive? I get the maximum time of 12 days, but surely EQ's would be stimulated in the AS part immediately so why wait 9 days? Is it something to do with the AS population needing to get to the capping point of the EQ do you think?
Just curious

 

[idg]

I thought it was so that the AS side could go through the motions of "building" a new queen and dissolve swarm tendencies. They have effectively gone through the motions and then hey presto, they have a new queen. (Actually it is their old queen which is returned to them after 9 days)
That is my understanding anyway.

 

[Eyeman]

As our Finnish colleague says "To rid them of swarm fever"

 

[Glenviewbee]

Yes I appreciate the idea that the AS side is persuaded to relinquish the swarming fever - I was just trying to pinpoint a bit more the theory.

There is a phrase in the pamphlet that gives the hypothesis that the AS side being forced to raise EmQCells which is potentially what helps to quash the swarming urge - I was curious as to why wait 9 days. The AS side would have eggs and young larvae (from the 2 brood frames left with them) to create the EmQCells which would suggest a MAXIMUM of 8 days before the cell is capped and therefore the brood feeding stops - if the EMQCells were created from up to 4 day old larvae (as in eggs 3 days then 4th day larva) then the cells would be capped on 8th as normal - so again we are beyond the point of brood feeding and theoretically 4 days before the 9th day from the procedure.

As I said - just curious.

 

[Erichalfbee]

At that stage the AS would be expecting a new queen so they would be more receptive to getting their old one back

 

[Glenviewbee]

Fair enough - yep seems logical.
I was obviously over-thinking it....!

 

[drex]

Used the queen cells and bees in the failed snelgrove 2 colony ( HM decided to go AWOL) and made up 3 nucs. Took down queen cells in the new box (raised in absence of nurses) and gave them a qc too. This planned A/S going wrong worked out well for me, as I was wanting to have a nuc for each full colony by years end, to use as brood factories a la Mike Palmer.

 

[Glenviewbee]

Did 2 modified WSnelgrove II AS's 11 days ago so today went in to get the Queens and return them to the 'forager' halves today.
Had to search good and hard to find HMQ but eventually, after pairing the brood frames, managed to spot her, capture, mark and then put her in the 'forager' half. All well and good.
Same approach on the other colony, but after successfully eventually finding HMQ, I managed to drop her - but then found her clinging to a grass stalk so phew. BUT then I managed to pretty much drown her when marking as my flipping pen did a massive splurge (and this was after I'd done a preparatory mark on the hive)
I don't hold out much hope for her as she was pretty much motionless after about a minute, then it took a great deal of coercion to get the workers to attend to her as they obviously didn't recognise her
So, I left her with the brood part of the colony as I felt trying to put her in the forager half would be a no no in her condition. This means the foragers will be going with one of their Scrub Queens but I hope I have a virgin queen in a nuc so I can always add her if necessary in the future.
Always a learning curve!

 

[drex]

In his instructions Wally says there is no need to thin queen cells in the parent hive after repatriation of the queen. Looked in two colonies today, it is about 2-3 days before I expect a virgin to emerge and there are still loads of queen cells ( all sealed of course). When will the bees do their own thinning, or should I do it? Or will the first queen out sting all her rivals?

 

[Jimmys Mum]

I have exactly the same dilemma as you Drex. Wally Shaws instructions are very precise, he says that no thinning of these queen cells is required as they are purely emergency queen cells and the swarming impulse should have abated.

Having said this, last year when I tried this method successfully on several hives, I DID thin them down to 1 as I was a little (lot) nervous in leaving more than 1.

This year, my plan is to let them sort it out and trust in Wally's instructions.....a nail biting week ahead now!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

The thinking is the bees will sort them out - if they don't actively protect the cells the first virgin out will see to them, or, they'll hold all queens in their cells until all are mature then leave them all out to fight.
Wally doesn't take any cells down during A/S's or when making up nucs from splits, so he must be pretty happy with the system.

 

[Glenviewbee]

I have just realised I made a mistake re the EmQC's in the AS (ie the box with the flyers and 2 frames brood, no queen). When I repatriated the original queen I had it in my head that I did not need to cull those EMQcells - however on rereading the instructions (4 days after the reintroduction) I see I WAS supposed to cull the cells....
So, original queen back in a box with now emerged emergency cells (prob 3 days ago) - is there any point in me going back into the hive? If so what should I be aiming to do? Or am I basically too late

 

[Glenviewbee]

Just collected a smallish swarm - so I think I've answered my question...!

 

[Glenviewbee]

Have you had success with the WS II and non-thinning down of the EmQs in the Parent Hive?

 

[Brigsy]

Hoping to find out how the non thinning down worked out. I am getting close to emergence of mine, which I have not thinned........

Am I right to just leave them alone and not inspect for about three weeks from when I made them queenless?

Don't want to look this weekend as I may damage queencells opening up the brood and a half. I'm at about day eight now.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Am I right to just leave them alone and not inspect for about three weeks from when I made them queenless?

.

I'm at about the same stage as you and I don't plant to look in until end of first week in july

 

[Brigsy]

Thanks again Erica.