Virgin Queen Mating

[Ceph]

I've read various posts regarding drone levels in relation to swarming and queen mating which I thought raises the questions

Does a virgin queen mate with drones from her own hive?

How far will drones and queens fly for mating?


It can't be good for the gene pool if they mate from the same hive can it.

 

[Poly Hive]

she may do.

Drones form congregation areas and are known to fly several miles to hang out in them as it were.

Do virgins fly to them too? Well the lads are there for some reason so it is a reasonable supposition that they do.

How they find them of course is another question but I would suspect a pherermone trail of some sort.

PH

 

[Ceph]

Congregation areas; didn't know this existed.

Is there any data on this anywhere you know of?

Cheers

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

Congregation areas; didn't know this existed.

Is there any data on this anywhere you know of?

Cheers

Hivemaker posted a very interesting thread on this subject

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=8491

 

[Ceph]

This looks good I'll have a butchers, thanks!

 

[BKF Admin]

I have read that queens will seek out drones from the same strain first if available,Carnie to Carnie,Italian to Italian ect.

I have no idea if they will choose drones from the same hive over a cross from another hive though.

 

[Ceph]

Thats intresting, I suppose it makes sense, unless she fancies a bit of strange!

Is there a chart of bee pictures ID somewhere so I can try and figure out what my bees are?

cheers

 

[victor meldrew]

I have read that queens will seek out drones from the same strain first if available,Carnie to Carnie,Italian to Italian ect.

I have no idea if they will choose drones from the same hive over a cross from another hive though.

I suspect this to be anecdotal
The only matings I have seen are tethered ones (an experiment done in Germany (I have the video).
The Queen has no influence on the selection of drones! , Looked like a gang bang to me

John Wilkinson

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

The only matings I have seen are tethered ones (an experiment done in Germany (I have the video).

I've seen that video, but whats it got to do with bees?

 

[Chris Luck]

You would have to surmise that she would go for the largest cross section of genes available NOT her own genetic stock, ("children"). Diversity is the mainstay of the natural world and breeds strong healthy stock, most species when "isolated" with insufficient genetic cross section die out eventually....

...anyway, I don't think mine need travel far before they are pounced on, massive drone activity in the afternoon sun now.

Chris

 

[Tom Bick]

Am I right that if the queen just so happens to mate with one of her own drones the result from any egg fertilised by that drone is an infertile drone and is called a diploid drone? Or am I completely wide of the mark?

 

[Erichalfbee]

I read somewhere that mother son matings will lead to a higher percentage of diploid drones to those from an outcrossing but nowhere near 100%. In the hive diploid drones are removed as larvae.

 

[melormynydd]

A queen can not mate with her own drones, because she mates before laying any eggs. the drones that would cause a problem would be drones from the same mother as her self, her brothers, or step brothers/uncles actually. genatics comes in here. very confusing.

 

[oliver90owner]

We should all know that in-breeding can lead to genetic defects becoming prominent, instead of being 'diluted' (so as to speak). Crufts (Kennel Club), and pedigree dogs, with 'narrow' gene options made the news enough for the BBC to stop televising the event, webbed feet, etc and it will be little different with bees.

Regards, RAB

 

[Tom Bick]

A queen can not mate with her own drones, because she mates before laying any eggs. the drones that would cause a problem would be drones from the same mother as her self, her brothers, or step brothers/uncles actually. genatics comes in here. very confusing.

Well spotted melormynydd yes you are absolutely right it’s a virgin queen that can possibly mate with a brother or half brother to produce diploid drones, er I think that’s right?

By the way welcome to the forum

 

[oliver90owner]

While noting the impossibles, the queen must be a virgin, in the accepted sense in beekeeing, or it would not be mating. I suppose the 'virgin' bit has held over from the time she was thought to be monogamous!

RAB

 

[mbc]

A queen can not mate with her own drones, because she mates before laying any eggs. the drones that would cause a problem would be drones from the same mother as her self, her brothers, or step brothers/uncles actually. genetics comes in here. very confusing.

Virgin queens can be induced to lay unfertilized eggs ( drones ) by gassing them with co2. Its a technique used in AI - I read about it in Steve Tabors Breeding Super Bees. They can then be AI'd with their own sons ! This is unlikely to happen in nature.
Drones in a hive arent necessarily of the same genetics as the mother of that hive as in the mating season drones will be accepted in any hive, not just their own, and they have been proved to travel far.

 

[melormynydd]

While noting the impossibles, the queen must be a virgin, in the accepted sense in beekeeing, or it would not be mating. I suppose the 'virgin' bit has held over from the time she was thought to be monogamous!

RAB

yes should have stated the queen was a virgin, sory. but with the monogamy point, its known that 'virgin' queens mate with multipul drones, but monogamy is posible if u count a hive of bees as a single animal. if that hive is the only hive in the drone flying range area. in theory the several drones mated with would be of same genes= 1 partner. posible?

thanks for the welcome Tom Bick

 

[m.s.]

www.montybees.org.uk/content/drone-congregation-areas

 

[Skyhook]

Hi ms, and welcome to the forum!

And thanks for the link, very informative. Confirms what I thought- there doesn't seem to be any selection by the queen, selection is in favour of the fastest drones.