Views on LASI Queens at the end of the season

[Eyeman]

From:
https://www.ars.usda.gov/ARSUserFil...ne against freeze-killed brood and Varroa.pdf

The relationship between the ability of bees to remove Freeze killed brood (FKB) and remove Varroa-infested brood is not strong. Thus, selecting for VSH by selecting for removal of FKB does not seems feasible.

This article seems to be well quoted and featured in a recent lecture by Randy Oliver. It seems to suggest that the LASI queens may not be good at removing varroa infested brood based on their FKB research.

 

[Fusion_power]

One of those interesting findings from a few years ago was when Marla Spivak evaluated some highly VSH bees and found they were highly hygienic. It was an unexpected result. She defined this better by showing that hygienic bees in general have reduced mite reproduction. More important is that hygienic bees are better at dealing with brood diseases. An accurate way to put it is that all hygienic bees are not necessarily VSH but all VSH bees are highly hygienic.

I would put it in a different context by suggesting that starting with hygienic bees and breeding for mite resistance is better than starting with non-hygienic bees and trying to develop mite resistance. This is one reason I wanted some Buckfast queens from Ferguson's. They have been selecting for hygienic traits. http://www.selectedplants.com/miscan/Ferguson.Hygienic Results_28-05-15.pdf

 

[B+.]

They have been selecting for hygienic traits.

I'm curious about the number of cells tested in the link you provided.
35 cells seems a bit low (50 would be easier to calculate percentages from). Why expose so few cells?

 

[B+.]

seems to suggest that the LASI queens may not be good at removing varroa infested brood based on their FKB research.

Both pin-killed and freeze killed brood look at the number of cells cleaned out in a given period (i.e. hygiene test). You have to remove dark eyed pupa and count daughter mites to test for reproducing varroa for the VSH test.

 

[Fusion_power]

I can't speak for the Ontario beekeepers Association, but reading the document, they freeze killed 4 separate areas each containing 35 cells for a total of 140 cells. The only reason I can think of for killing 140 cells is to ensure at least 100 sealed cells were in the test. I noted one other disparity, only one test cycle was performed. Spivak repeatedly said to test each colony twice a few weeks apart because some colonies will test as hygienic on one but not the other.

I don't expect much benefit from hygienic tests for reducing mite counts, but I think it is better to start with hygienic stock and make crosses for selection to incorporate VSH and allogrooming/mite mauling.

 

[B+.]

I think it is better to start with hygienic stock and make crosses for selection to incorporate VSH and allogrooming/mite mauling.

Thank you. That makes much more sense.

I agree. Hygienic behaviour should be a pre-requisite. I observe mite damage on the inspection tray but I'm not sure how to measure it reliably.

 

[Fusion_power]

The method used is to put a sticky board in the hive for 1 to 2 hours. Use shorter times if the average mite load is high and longer times if the load is low. Pull the sticky board, then put a specific size rim on top of the board so the exact square inches checked is known. Count the mites in that area, then examine each mite under a microscope for evidence of chewing. Be careful when doing so, some mites have an indentation in their carapace that looks like chewing damage but is not. The most reliable indicator is legs with missing segments or legs completely removed.

The reporting should be total mites per area, damaged mites, and estimated mite load in the colony. Select for colonies with good honey production, low average mite load, and high percentage of damaged mites. This will inherently also select for VSH traits since VSH tends to keep mite load low.

High VSH bees are a good starting point but typically give less than 30 percent damaged mites. For the trait to be effective, the number of damaged mites needs to be above 30% and preferably much higher. The people who have been most successful with selection for mauling consistently report weak results for the first 5 or 6 generations, then gradual improvement over the next 5 to 10 generations.

I can't begin to guess the percentage of a population that might carry mite grooming and mauling traits, but I found it in a queen that showed multiple traits consistent with A.m.mellifera background. If you have access, testing a few A.m.m. colonies for damaged mites might be worth the effort.

 

[B+.]

Count the mites in that area, then examine each mite under a microscope for evidence of chewing.

Thank you but that is not what I meant. This will give evidence of the number of damaged mites in a colony at a given point, but not a comparable figure that I can compare between colonies. Effectively, I would need a percentage figure of the total number of mites in the colony (or estimated number more precisely).
I already inspect the sticky insert using a microscope and count using a grid and tally counter. That is how I can say with certainty that I observe damaged mites. I am just not content that my figures are comparable between colonies.

I only have A.m.c. colonies available to test.

 

[Fusion_power]

That is the clarification I was looking for. Have you thought about doing alcohol washes to find the number of phoretic mites and extrapolate total mites in the hive?

 

[B+.]

That is the clarification I was looking for. Have you thought about doing alcohol washes to find the number of phoretic mites and extrapolate total mites in the hive?

Yes. Its still only an estimate. I was looking for a more reliable way of comparing colonies.
Anyway, this is all very interesting but nothing to do with the OP.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

nothing to do with the OP.

I disagree. LASI --> meaty chunks (taken out of mites)

 

[Madge]

The OP asked about the queens' survival after introduction, not about their subsequent performance.

 

[Motobiman]

We introduced one last year at the teaching apiary and she was accepted and is doing fine.
Four have just been introduced last weekend so watch this space.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

introduced last weekend

!!! Whaaa? Reduced opportunity to supersede I suppose...

Just to clarify above; it is an appalling joke based on a Mars dog-food brand that seems to have expired, "Lassie Meaty Chunks"

 

[Motobiman]

!!! Whaaa? Reduced opportunity to supersede I suppose...

Just to clarify above; it is an appalling joke based on a Mars dog-food brand that seems to have expired, "Lassie Meaty Chunks"

Just circumstances, it was that or combining and reducing the number of hives in the teaching apiary early next year.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Just circumstances, it was that or combining and reducing the number of hives in the teaching apiary early next year.

The beeking Gods may have other ideas. Good luck. Just to be clear, this thread is about LASI virgins. Have you introduced mated queens or are you REALLY tempting the beeking Gods?

 

[Motobiman]

The beeking Gods may have other ideas. Good luck. Just to be clear, this thread is about LASI virgins. Have you introduced mated queens or are you REALLY tempting the beeking Gods?

I read the title LASI Queens and of course it's mated queens we've introduced.

Sorry thought that was pretty obvious at this time of year.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

LASI Queens in the title not specifically virgins and of course it's mated queens we've introduced.

Sorry thought that was pretty obvious.

Sorry: I'm being a bozo: you beat me to editing it :-/. My apologies.

 

[Motobiman]

No worries mate.

 

[For want of a better word]

No worries mate.

LASI news today

Tested Open-Mated Queen Batch - 25th May 2017

£500.00

Decision time.... two of them or a Flow's Hive?

This beekeepering lark is getting a tad expensive for an OAP like me!!

Yeghes da