ventilation?

[Peter Armitage]

It's my understanding that there is no consensus in the U.K. about what level of ventilation to provide in your hives particularly during the winter. Here in Newfoundland we're firm believers in the adage, "It's not cold that kills bees, it's moisture." Two days ago it was -18 deg. C. and sunny at my apiary. Tomorrow we have forecast 25-30 cm of snow with NE winds 50-80 km/h. Thursday forecast is zero degrees with periods of freezing rain or snow. In order to deal with such climatic challenges, several of us have adopted David Eyre's ventilation approach. He's originally from the U.K., but immigrated to Ontario, Canada, 30+ years ago where he and his wife run a company called "Bee Works." He sells a D.E. Hive modified ventilation kit for Langstroth hives, which is what I'm using. I purchased one as a template and make my own. I fill the vent box with fibreglass insulation in the winter but leave the top entrance open (1 inch) and the bottom entrance open 3 to 7 inches depending on the strength of the colony (shrew/mouse guards on, of course). Hives are wrapped with black roofing felt and face SSE. Frame configuration is "warm" in these hives. Have any of your U.K. beekeepers come across anything like this D.E. Hive setup? It really looks to me to be inspired by U.K. designs??? See https://www.beeworks.com/mod-kit-details/

 

[Little John]

I hope you realise that a post about ventilation is a case of "light the blue touch-paper and retire immediately ... !"

we're firm believers in the adage, "It's not cold that kills bees, it's moisture."

But bees need moisture. It's condensation in the wrong place dripping onto the cluster which can kill them - but that isn't the same thing as 'moisture'.
Condensation above the cluster can be prevented by taking two precautions: one is to insulate the crown board (inner cover), and the other is to tilt the hive 10 degrees (say) so that condensate will run off the crown board and down the hive walls.

In general terms, many people over here are moving towards the Open Mesh Floor (along with bottom entrances) to provide ventilation in summer, and some (including me) leave them open all-year round. Nucs are usually an exception.

I don't know of anyone in the UK who uses upper entrances. There may be a few folk using them, but they're keeping very quiet about it.

But - and I think this is VERY important - we don't have anything like the same kind of extreme weather you folk so frequently experience.

'best
LJ

 

[Finman]

.
Cold surely kills. And moisture kills if you arrange things so. And windy place.

One rule: If you have a mesh floor, do not keep up any holes open.

I keep in Finland solid bottom. 1.5 cm upper hole in front wall and main entrance
10 cm x 1 cm.

Hive in slantting position in winter that condensation water drills out.
All boxes are poly. Inner cover has 7 cm insulation.

One hint: Do not lead condensation fume into loft.

 

[Poly Hive]

Some light reading....

http://-----------------/damp-condensation-and-ventilation-brood-rearing-in-the-winter-cluster/

Please remember there is a massive difference between our winter weather. Canada normally is very cold and dry and we are wet and damp.

PH

 

[Finman]

Some light reading....

http://-----------------/damp-condensation-and-ventilation-brood-rearing-in-the-winter-cluster/

Please remember there is a massive difference between our winter weather. Canada normally is very cold and dry and we are wet and damp.

PH

There exist long autumns and long springs too and rains. Canada is not all the time cold.

The most moist environment my hives have when the they are inside wet snow.

My hives over winter better without snow cover. And snow cover is only 2 months for bees. Just now we have 10 cm snow and temp was today+6C. Couple days ago it was -24C.


.

 

[Little John]

And - from a Russian site:

The text (by courtesy of Google Translate) reads:
Rime of warming is melting, but the water back to the nest are no longer covered. By tilting the hive drops roll down the film forward and Vodicka flowing out.

LJ

 

[Peter Armitage]

Thanks for the various responses to my post. Almost all of us here in Newfoundland (where it can be cold but also damp) use upper entrances. My crown board has a centre hole for a rapid feeder in the warm season (but covered with 1/8" mesh at the moment) and two ventilation holes at the back (also covered with mesh). I put three 1/2" sticks across the crown board and then thick fibreglass insulation, contained within the vent box which is like a medium super. I may get a little frost in the vent box but no melting icicles dripping onto the cluster. Those of us who use this approach are obviously happy with it - for the moment. However, back to my original question, has anyone in the U.K. seen anything on your side of the Atlantic resembling the D.E. Hive ventilation kit (you need to check out his website to get the details)? The other reason for the upper entrance left open is in case of snow accumulation which may prevent the "ladies" from getting out for cleansing flights via that entrance, on warmer days...

 

[user 6228]

I could say some stuff about fluid mechanics and heat transfer but instead listen to bees . They seek out bottom entrances high up. So if you have deep snow keep you hives high and the entrances low and the hives insulated. The bees have discovered the fluid dynamics solutions through hundreds of thousands of years. I study the fluid dynamics in bee nests and can vouch the bees 'know' their stuff. That's what makes bees so fascinating to me.

 

[MartinL]

Please remember there is a massive difference between our winter weather.

Canada normally is very cold and dry and we are wet and damp.

PH

It doesn't get cold over here any more!

A light dusting of the white stuff means;

• State school teachers quote the safety Elf & take the day off

• The supermarkets have a rush on something "due to severe weather"

• The idiots in "Chelsea Tractors" go mad & usually crash into something when they need to stop (not realising that all vehicles are fitted with 4-wheel braking) !

• The BBC "helicopter in" some beleaguered journalist to a tiny "cut off village" being very careful to only show the 100 yards of road that has not been cleared of snow by the locals

 

[MuswellMetro]

It doesn't get cold over here any more!

• The BBC "helicopter in" some beleaguered journalist to a tiny "cut off village" being very careful to only show the 100 yards of road that has not been cleared of snow by the locals

i remember a BBC reporter standing knee deep in water during flooding at tewkesbury, ,saying this road has been impassable to vehicles for days, Only to see a Landrover defender 110 appear behind him from the flood water with water draining out of the bottom of the defenders doors and the exhuast blowing bubbles

 

[charlievictorbravo]

I've looked at the D E Hives website = https://www.beeworks.com/d-e-hive-details/ and might be persuaded that ventilation systems might be helpful in a hot climate during a heavy flow, I'm not convinced that having a draft through the hive in winter is a good idea.

I use heavily insulated hives (18mm homemade plywood 14x12 National with open mesh floor) with a 50mm (sides) and 100mm (top) rigid foamed polyurethane roof that completely covers the brood box. I also have polycarbonate inner covers, so that I can see inside the brood box without disturbing the bees. I have never seen condensation in the hive with this set up. Moisture may be bad for bees but humidity is not. Moisture (condensation) occurs when humid air comes into contact with a cold surface. Insulation reduces/eliminates cold surfaces. With insulation bees need less supplementary feeding to get through winter and seem to be able to move around the hive more readily to get to the stores that they have - less isolation starvation.

Bees evolved largely in holes in trees with thick-walled enclosures that were tall and thin. Beekeepers have put bees in squat thin-walled enclosures. The bees have adapted to this but it has brought problems. Insulation helps with some of these problems.

CVB

 

[Michael Palmer]

I've looked at the D E Hives website = https://www.beeworks.com/d-e-hive-details/ and might be persuaded that ventilation systems might be helpful in a hot climate during a heavy flow, I'm not convinced that having a draft through the hive in winter is a good idea.

I too use both bottom and top entrances for winter. I've found, over decades, that the setup is best for reducing excess moisture in the wintering hive. I've used reduced bottom entrance, reduced bottom entrance and small top entrance, wide open bottom entrance, and wide open bottom with small top entrance. The latter has the best results, hands down. With an apiary of 700+ production colonies (and 700 nuclei) I lost 2% last winter and 12% the winter before. Surviving colonies are dry and healthy.

 

[madasafish]

I've looked at the D E Hives website = https://www.beeworks.com/d-e-hive-details/ and might be persuaded that ventilation systems might be helpful in a hot climate during a heavy flow, I'm not convinced that having a draft through the hive in winter is a good idea.

I use heavily insulated hives (18mm homemade plywood 14x12 National with open mesh floor) with a 50mm (sides) and 100mm (top) rigid foamed polyurethane roof that completely covers the brood box. I also have polycarbonate inner covers, so that I can see inside the brood box without disturbing the bees. I have never seen condensation in the hive with this set up. Moisture may be bad for bees but humidity is not. Moisture (condensation) occurs when humid air comes into contact with a cold surface. Insulation reduces/eliminates cold surfaces. With insulation bees need less supplementary feeding to get through winter and seem to be able to move around the hive more readily to get to the stores that they have - less isolation starvation.


CVB

Exactly the same as me with Lang jumbos. The only condensation I see is on the varroa board when inserted..

Duplication of results is vindication of a theory in physics..

 

[Poly Hive]

One word from me.

Poly.

PH

 

[drex]

I use just top insulation in my wooden nationals with OMF. I do not find condensation a problem. I have one Warre hive, which I just run out of interest. I think his top cover design is a good idea, as it insulates and is breathable . It consists of a box with a hessian floor, and the box filled with shavings. He has a two layer roof also, open to the sides - I presume to stop solar radiation heating the hives in a hot French summer. I do not intend to convert my Nationals to such an arrangement, just saying I think he was on the right track

 

[Brigsy]

I have Poly hives, open mesh all winter, clear plastic crown boards with foam slab on top then bonnets. Bone dry all winter apart from when I put an inspection board in after Apibioxal when it got a bit moist. Back to bone dry after I took it back out.

 

[madasafish]

I've looked at the D E Hives website = https://www.beeworks.com/d-e-hive-details/ and might be persuaded that ventilation systems might be helpful in a hot climate during a heavy flow, I'm not convinced that having a draft through the hive in winter is a good idea.


CVB

A temperature range of -40C to +40C is a bit outside our range in the UK,, He says his hives winter on 120 lbs of honey..!! Some of his harvest numbers are impressive

 

[Tremyfro]

This winter my bees have insulated walls, insulated roof, insulation under OMF and an under floor entrance. I am waiting for spring to see how they have got on. A bit like a horizontal log really.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

It doesn't get cold over here any more!

A light dusting of the white stuff means;

• State school teachers quote the safety Elf & take the day off

]

If teachers don't turn up due to a mm of snow or the school shuts due to lack of teachers, do they get paid?

In industry it's the responsibility of the employees to get to work. If they don't turn up they take as leave or unpaid holiday.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

If teachers don't turn up due to a mm of snow or the school shuts due to lack of teachers, do they get paid?

In industry it's the responsibility of the employees to get to work. If they don't turn up they take as leave or unpaid holiday.

My senior school headmaster lived across the road from the rear of the school with his own personal gate in the fence. No amount of snow would stop him and any class without a teacher would be corraled into the hall where he would sit on the stage and keep order. Very few teachers lived beyond cycling distance in those days so shortage of teachers was rare.