Vat on nucs

[BigAshW]

Quick question.

If you sell a five frame nuc in a correx box is vat applicable?

I'm believe livestock is vat exempt but wasn't sure if the frames count?

 

[Boston Bees]

Quick question.

If you sell a five frame nuc in a correx box is vat applicable?

I'm believe livestock is vat exempt but wasn't sure if the frames count?

Are you VAT registered?

 

[BigAshW]

Are you VAT registered?

Nope

 

[Boston Bees]

Nope

Then, no, no VAT applicable!

Doesn't matter what you sell, if you aren't VAT registered, you don't charge VAT (and you don't get VAT registered until your sales reach £85k or something)

 

[Into the lions den]

Quick question.

If you sell a five frame nuc in a correx box is vat applicable?

I'm believe livestock is vat exempt but wasn't sure if the frames count?

NO VAT only applies if there is something special and expensive about packaging. Frame and combs are an integral part of a nucleus, and correx is simply basic packaging.

Might be different if you sold in a hand carved and gold inlaid mahogany box however....

 

[JamezF]

If you're not VAT registered then I believe it would be illegal to charge VAT.

James

 

[BigAshW]

Then, no, no VAT applicable!

Doesn't matter what you sell, if you aren't VAT registered, you don't charge VAT (and you don't get VAT registered until your sales reach £85k or something)

Ok cool.

This has always confused me.

So if I sell an item that should have vat applied how does the hmrc get their cut?

 

[BigAshW]

NO VAT only applies if there is something special and expensive about packaging. Frame and combs are an integral part of a nucleus, and correx is simply basic packaging.

Might be different if you sold in a hand carved and gold inlaid mahogany box however....

Thank you.

 

[Boston Bees]

Ok cool.

This has always confused me.

So if I sell an item that should have vat applied how does the hmrc get their cut?

They don't.

Only VAT registered businesses (which you aren't) can charge or reclaim VAT. Simples.

HMRC only gets VAT from businesses which are VAT registered

 

[BigAshW]

They don't.

Only VAT registered businesses (which you aren't) can charge or reclaim VAT. Simples.

Ok thank you that's useful to know.

 

[JamezF]

So if I sell an item that should have vat applied how does the hmrc get their cut?

If you're VAT-registered then you have to do a return, usually either monthly or quarterly, to show how much VAT you've charged and how much you've been charged. If there's a difference in HMRC's favour then you have to pay that to them (and when it's in your favour they refund you).

James

 

[Into the lions den]

Then, no, no VAT applicable!

Doesn't matter what you sell, if you aren't VAT registered, you don't charge VAT (and you don't get VAT registered until your sales reach £85k or something)

You can register voluntarily at lower levels..and in most cases it makes little sense for a beekeeper NOT to. You can claim back the VAT on all your inputs inc fuel and a reasonable proportion of home costs as you need an office. All honey and bee sales are zero rated..so with 20% back on many of your inputs it shifts the profit level a long way in your favour.

 

[Boston Bees]

You can register voluntarily at lower levels..and in most cases it makes little sense for a beekeeper NOT to. You can claim back the VAT on all your inputs inc fuel and a reasonable proportion of home costs as you need an office. All honey and bee sales are zero rated..so with 20% back on many of your inputs it shifts the profit level a long way in your favour.

You can try to register voluntarily, but good luck to a back-garden hobby beekeeper with 10 hives who tries it (which is the situation we are talking about here, I believe).

 

[JamezF]

You can try to register voluntarily, but good luck to a back-garden hobby beekeeper with 10 hives who tries it (which is the situation we are talking about here, I believe).

I used to know someone like that who managed it, but he did have a small number of sheep (perhaps a dozen) as well, and this was twenty years ago.

Now it all has to be done online perhaps it might be easier. At least until they realise that they're not making any money out of you

James

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I used to know someone like that who managed it, but he did have a small number of sheep (perhaps a dozen) as well, and this was twenty years ago.

Now it all has to be done online perhaps it might be easier. At least until they realise that they're not making any money out of you

It's the same, voluntary traders have to demonstrate they are a business and have a credible turnover, and even then if someone tried to register voluntarily and were not repayment traders (such as farmers and food traders who, because their goods are zero rated claim money back from HMRC rather than pay it) we'd consider them lunatics or had ulterior motives and refuse. Traders who sell exempt goods or services are not allowed to register regardless of turnover. I don't know about nowadays but voluntary traders weren't allowed to submit monthly returns either.

 

[Wilco]

It's the same, voluntary traders have to demonstrate they are a business and have a credible turnover, and even then if someone tried to register voluntarily and were not repayment traders (such as farmers and food traders who, because their goods are zero rated claim money back from HMRC rather than pay it) we'd consider them lunatics or had ulterior motives and refuse. Traders who sell exempt goods or services are not allowed to register regardless of turnover. I don't know about nowadays but voluntary traders weren't allowed to submit monthly returns either.

Interesting to hear as I've toyed with the idea a few times as it would have been nice to get a discount on sheep related equipment etc. but/because they don't make much profit...

 

[Newbeeneil]

Interesting to hear as I've toyed with the idea a few times as it would have been nice to get a discount on sheep related equipment etc. but/because they don't make much profit...

Laurence from BMH mentioned VAT in his chat re building a beekeeping business. He said register early when building a business as you can claim VAT back on most equipment and don't charge on many items produced.
Unfortunately I've spent the last 5 years buying equipment when I'm not registered. Drat!

 

[Boston Bees]

Laurence from BMH mentioned VAT in his chat re building a beekeeping business. He said register early when building a business as you can claim VAT back on most equipment and don't charge on many items produced.
Unfortunately I've spent the last 5 years buying equipment when I'm not registered. Drat!

Are you running a beekeeping business?

 

[Newbeeneil]

A small part time business with a t/o of about £25k this tax year. Most comes from hive maintenance services which in fact would be subject to VAT

 

[WoodenBeam]

A small part time business with a t/o of about £25k this tax year. Most comes from hive maintenance services which in fact would be subject to VAT

Yep your services would be subject to Vat so payable to HMRC I would have thought.
But when we set up as a Vat registered business we were able to claim the previous 4 years Vat paid on equipment……….