Varroa count

[Olivia9801]

I have just taken my tray out of the hive after leaving it there for 7days to check on my colonies varroa situation.

I have spent a good 20 minutes with a magnifying glass going carefully going over and through the bees debris on the tray and found 13 walking varroa.

I wasn't able to find any dead and accept that this maybe a false negative by referring to just the 13 I saw alive.

What sort of varroa count is this, is it a positive sign re the varroa situation of my colony or not? Is this a high number?

Your views and results would be appreciated.


Regards

 

[thenovice]

it is generally accepted that the varroa board is a rubbish test. Ants clear the dropouts and like you say, if they are alive, they will walk off or even crawl back into the hive if clearrance is not great. BUT, its the easiest way to monitor it a bit and therefore a good way for routine husbandry. 13 alive in seven days is not a reason to worry and hopefully is because your bees clean the varroa off by themselves rather than havign them die and drop. you can for now sit back and relax and contemplate whether you wil use thymol based treatment after you harvested your crop or skip it and go for oxalic only in winter. I'd keep an eye on the weather, check again in 2-3 weeks when the honey is off and check every day for a week if you can.

 

[TryingToLetThemBee]

Calculator here http://www.nationalbeeunit.com/public/BeeDiseases/varroaCalculator.cfm

As @thenovice says, it's not a great test. Fact is you have some varroa, maybe not a huge amount but should do an an autumn treatment.

Odd that they're all walking (and clearly means an understatement; also a reason it should be a STICKY board test). The hive may be very crowded and they're getting brushed off or maybe just maybe your bees are grooming them somewhat. Vastly unlikely but worth considering.

 

[B+.]

I have just taken my tray out of the hive after leaving it there for 7days to check on my colonies varroa situation

If there are frames containing sealed brood in your colony, it is really impossible to say.
That is because the varroa mite reproduces in sealed cells and you are only assessing the pheretic (travelling) stage of its life cycle where the varroa feeds on the bees haemolymph (blood).
In any case, a single reading is insufficient and you would need to monitor over a 3 week period. This is because the worker brood cycle is 21 days and you would need to assess the number of mature female varroa mites that emerge from the cells over a full brood cycle (24 days for drones).
The good news is that males and immature females mites (white/yellow) do not survive outside of the cell so it is only the dark red colour that survive.

The natural mite drop is best performed when there is no brood. at this time of year, the true figure is a combination of the natural mite drop and the number of mites in sealed cells which is difficult to determine.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Olivia, I have a colony in a standard national box which dropped 10 varroa in six days. I decided to vape it ahead of the others as it has only one super on and being largely uncapped it belongs to the bees. The third vape is tomorrow and since I started it has dropped 450 mites. I might get on and treat. You might get an unpleasant surprise if you wait till winter.

 

[B+.]

it should be a STICKY board test

but it is better to do a sugar roll / soapy water test at this time of year.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

sit back and relax and contemplate whether you wil use thymol based treatment after you harvested your crop or skip it and go for oxalic only in winter.

It's more important to do an autumn treatment and skip the winter one.

 

[Olivia9801]

Okay, Thank you for your updates. I thought this could be a possible false negative /unreliable check.

I have my apiguard so will place it in the hive this weekend.

Regards

 

[Erichalfbee]

It's more important to do an autumn treatment and skip the winter one.

Can beginners understand why? I'm not being patronising. Just trying to be helpful.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

true - it's important that the young bees from the next couple of months go into winter as healthy as possible as they are looking at a long life and hard work at the end of it when the queen starts laying in earnest again in spring therefore the objective is to have as little varroa as possible in the colony September to November; leaving them build up from now until Christmas is leaving it too late - your crucial 'winter bees' will have been compromised.
Better to treat early autumn before the mites build up rather than give them a good head of steam then ripping the brood nest apart midwinter to treat with OA - especially as there's a good chance you will only hit the phoretic mites as you seldom get a good brood break nowadays

 

[Gaz1]

true - it's important that the young bees from the next couple of months go into winter as healthy as possible as they are looking at a long life and hard work at the end of it when the queen starts laying in earnest again in spring therefore the objective is to have as little varroa as possible in the colony September to November; leaving them build up from now until Christmas is leaving it too late - your crucial 'winter bees' will have been compromised.
Better to treat early autumn before the mites build up rather than give them a good head of steam then ripping the brood nest apart midwinter to treat with OA - especially as there's a good chance you will only hit the phoretic mites as you seldom get a good brood break nowadays

So how do you determine whether winter OA treatment is necessary?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

It isn't if you do the autumn one properly - the winter one was always an alternative, not an 'as well as' the reason for winter treatment was you need a broodless period for OA trickling to be effective. People use it as a 'just in case' if they think that conditions weren't favourable during Apiguard treatment

Post Scriptum: If you think winter treatment is 'necessary' it's too late as all your winter bees will have been compromised already - the best you can say is that if they survive in reasonable shape, you've knocked the mites right back to give them a bit of a start on the year

 

[Erichalfbee]

I you have effected adequate autumn control the winter treatment is uneccessary. Unless of course you are following prof Ratnieks prescription

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Which is written in crayon

 

[B+.]

Unless of course you are following prof Ratnieks prescription

For the benefit of those of us who weren't at his presentation, would you care to explain what he "prescribed"?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

For the benefit of those of us who weren't at his presentation, would you care to explain what he "prescribed"?

conduct weekly inspections, ripping the colony apart throughout the winter until you find the colony broodless then sublimate

 

[Finman]

.
There are no need to count them. After a month they have double number. and after 2 months 4 fold.


Just try to kill them.

It is more usefull to kill on small level than on fatal level. Killing on fatal level is not often succesfull. Damages are too far..
.

 

[Erichalfbee]

For the benefit of those of us who weren't at his presentation, would you care to explain what he "prescribed"?

JBM is being dramatic but accurate. Based on his research on his bees if you treat a colony of his hygienic bees when they are broodless you need to do it only once a year. His figures show that the presence of any brood( he mentioned as few as 50 cells) very significantly reduces the effectiveness of one treatment. He therefore suggests scraping out every last brood cell in the middle of winter then vaping. He himself admitted that all his colonies were brood less at different times over the years. It would entail you and me checking each colony every week after we had put them to bed looking for that brood less or near brood less window

 

[mintmoth]

By "autumn", do you mean now? As a newbie, I'm a trifle confused, since to me "autumn" generally means Sept - Nov, but JBM is saying "as little varroa as possible in the colony September to November", so should I treat now so that varroa numbers are knocked down by the start of September?

 

[B+.]

. He himself admitted that all his colonies were brood less at different times over the years. It would entail you and me checking each colony every week after we had put them to bed looking for that brood less or near brood less window

Out of curiosity, just how many colonies does he manage? It seems like a lot of work at a time when you don't really want to disturb the winter cluster.

Perhaps I should add a supplementary question: How many of them survived this regime?