Vape prep at dusk got angry response

[cwinte]

My single hive has been mild mannered for 12months or so. Queen state certain just now, was Q- for a few weeks with some capped Q cells and bloodless last week when I thought I saw an emerged Q last week in a super so removed QX. There are 2 supers each about 70% capped (some uncapped) honey. As I have enough for my needs and my main aim is healthy bees I intend to leave most or all of the honey, about 20Kg I guess.
They are foraging daytime and seemed happy.
About 4 dead verroa per day on BB over last week...

Around sunset I went to vape OA but they were VERY defensive from the first touch at the doorway. I got the vape tool in and half replaced door before a first wrist sting and their butting advised me retreat a while and observe...
About 50-100 came out and were clambering around the doorway, the shaft of the vape tool so I left them to acclimatise and went away for 15m.
When I came back there were 10 or so around, and one very quickly to the wrist spot (I had anticipated that might happen and had hand up the sleeve and was working with the other hand, gloved). Figured they really were unhappy and best to wait till later (very dark now) or early am.
QUESTIONS
Is this more likely due to unhappy Q state, grumpy new Q, lack of Q, the oxalic crystals that are loaded on the pan, the time of day or what?

Should I go ahead and vape am early?

LONGER TERM
Is queen likely to stay virgin now? (emerged 2 weeks ago and there might be brood by now but today was not the day to look! I am assuming prob not any brood - they would be happier maybe. There has been some pollen going in...)

What would be a good strategy re the 2 supers, honey, feeding and winter/spring continuation?

 

[psafloyd]

My single hive has been mild mannered for 12months or so. Queen state certain just now, was Q- for a few weeks with some capped Q cells and bloodless last week when I thought I saw an emerged Q last week in a super so removed QX. There are 2 supers each about 70% capped (some uncapped) honey. As I have enough for my needs and my main aim is healthy bees I intend to leave most or all of the honey, about 20Kg I guess.

They are foraging daytime and seemed happy.

About 4 dead verroa per day on BB over last week...



Around sunset I went to vape OA but they were VERY defensive from the first touch at the doorway. I got the vape tool in and half replaced door before a first wrist sting and their butting advised me retreat a while and observe...

About 50-100 came out and were clambering around the doorway, the shaft of the vape tool so I left them to acclimatise and went away for 15m.

When I came back there were 10 or so around, and one very quickly to the wrist spot (I had anticipated that might happen and had hand up the sleeve and was working with the other hand, gloved). Figured they really were unhappy and best to wait till later (very dark now) or early am.

QUESTIONS

Is this more likely due to unhappy Q state, grumpy new Q, lack of Q, the oxalic crystals that are loaded on the pan, the time of day or what?



Should I go ahead and vape am early?



LONGER TERM

Is queen likely to stay virgin now? (emerged 2 weeks ago and there might be brood by now but today was not the day to look! I am assuming prob not any brood - they would be happier maybe. There has been some pollen going in...)



What would be a good strategy re the 2 supers, honey, feeding and winter/spring continuation?

I don't understand why you would be treating without understanding the status of the colony first.

Inspect the hive, determine whether there is brood or even a queen and then you will know what's what.

What is the point in treating a queenless colony? What are their chances of surviving the winter?


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[Wingy]

Read quite a few threads on here about “messing” with bees / hives late evening or at night. Can’t think of of any of those threads that didn’t result in an angry reaction from the bees

 

[Ian123]

Why are you doing it in the eve...just asking for trouble

 

[jeff33]

I usually block the entrance and vap from underneath the om floor with the tray on. If you are going to put the vaporiser through the entrance into the hive what else can you expect?
As the first response though, if your hive is Q- the mites are the least of your worries.

 

[PaulCarroll]

I agree. I vape from under the OMF and try to do so during the day. You don’t need all your bees in the hive for OA Treatment to be effective. I also wonder why you feel you need to treat with such a low varroa count, though precautionary treatment is no bad thing. I also wonder why you are leaving so much honey as stores which may leave you two issues in the spring 1) Uneaten plentiful stores may result in lack of laying space and 2) If you have a Queen you might find unwanted brood in your supers.
Final observation is that you need another colony (at least) which provides more flexibility if you find yourself Q-.


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[jenkinsbrynmair]

Weather, time of day, ambient temperature, time of year - nothing more.
As for inspecting, most of mine have not been opened up since August.

 

[cwinte]

Update from OP: I think robbery is part of the reaction

Thanks to all for the variety of useful comments.

8 am there was quite a number of bees outside the hive, which was still shut after vaping at midnight. So looks like there is a deal of robbing going on although no visible fights or bodies about, so that is a slight puzzle. That would help explain why they were in very defensive mood this time.
I note the point about vaping from under OMF but thought a BB needed to help retain the vapour, and need to keep plastic board away from pan heater.

Between 8 and 1pm they have managed to dislodge a loose wedge so the doorway is open again and I see there is some pollen going in. So, maybe not all is robbery and maybe there is brood now or on the way.

I have a day free now to go in and assess, determine state of colony & Q and decide if hive looks fit to overwinter and leave them to use the 20Kg honey or if I should harvest supers or whatever. (I am not trying to sell honey and have enough for family and friends already.)

Agreed that I would not want to start from here but a number of trips away at times of key hive events have left me progressively less in touch with the hive.
A full inspect to ascertain state has not been done for over a month due to weather/absence/funeral plus top super is very wild-comb so taking out frames would have been be very messy and slow, as well as exposing to robbers and the many wasps.

 

[cwinte]

Tray is new to me!

I usually block the entrance and vap from underneath the om floor with the tray on. If you are going to put the vaporiser through the entrance into the hive what else can you expect?
As the first response though, if your hive is Q- the mites are the least of your worries.

Hmm, just looked a tray up and a tray or something below might be useful but at present my national hives just have a runner for the plastic BB and then open space.

 

[cwinte]

Why are you doing it in the eve...just asking for trouble

Having more bees at home seemed like a good thing, plus it was the first chance I'd had for a few weeks. Last year evening vape was quick and done without a suit even!

 

[Hivemaker.]

8 am there was quite a number of bees outside the hive, which was still shut after vaping at midnight. So looks like there is a deal of robbing going on although no visible fights or bodies about, so that is a slight puzzle.

You only need to close the hive for ten minutes, if at all, not 8 or more hours, no wonder they are pissed off... those bees are ones that were already out.

 

[coffindodger]

Midnight treatment is not a good idea; bees upset at night, you can't see.
Vaping through entrance is better avoided; burned bees and working in area of bee activity.
I made a second mesh base for the hive which is open at the rear of the hive. Vape tool goes in between floors. Close front entrance; push in loaded tool; close rear entrance around shaft; power on for 3 minutes; check all OA gone; remove tool and reclose rear; wait 15 minutes then remove closures.
Apart from the closing and opening actions of the front entrance - just a few seconds-, you are not in the way of bees coming or going and can choose the time of day to suit yourself.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

You only need to close the hive for ten minutes, if at all, not 8 or more hours, no wonder they are pissed off... those bees are ones that were already out.

I often don't bother closing up at all, and even when I do, it's immediately before I treat. You don't shut the bees up when using apiguard do you? sublimation leaves a deposit of micro crystals over all surfaces of the hive, movement of bees means they will all get in contact with it - even those outside when sublimation took place. It's contact with those crystals that kills the mites not the 'gas' generated during sublimation and it will work for days after the initial vaping.