Using fondant instead of honey/syrup in min nucs.

[Curly green finger's]

Evening I have lost two queen's this season in mini nucs because they got into the feeders and drowned, even though I used grass for the girls to walk over.

I was wondering about using fondant instead or do folk on here have any other thoughts or ideas pls.
Thanks
Mark.

 

[Ian123]

Yes you can use fondant but I prefer starting them off with syrup. Quite simply are you putting enough grass or bits in, not a problem I’ve knowingly had before. You can make a float as well.

 

[Angry_Mob]

What mini nucs are you using? The Apidea and Chinese clones come with a small queen excluder.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Yes you can use fondant but I prefer starting them off with syrup. Quite simply are you putting enough grass or bits in, not a problem I’ve knowingly had before. You can make a float as well.

I'm using plenty of grass Ian, the queen's I drowned were newly emerged virgins.

 

[Curly green finger's]

What mini nucs are you using? The Apidea and Chinese clones come with a small queen excluder.

Kielers, I could cut some qx down to fit over the feeder that would work.

 

[Angry_Mob]

Kielers, I could cut some qx down to fit over the feeder that would work.

Just what I was going to suggest to do or alternatively if you know someone whos handy with a 3D printer they could make and print you some.

The lack of a queen excluder seems like poor oversight by the designer.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Just what I was going to suggest to do or alternatively if you know someone whos handy with a 3D printer they could make and print you some.

The lack of a queen excluder seems like poor oversight by the designer.

It does, I've got some plastic qxs which I don't very often use, I can cut those down to fit.
I like the kielers but I can't see much point in the entrance under the box, I know it's to deter wasps but a bit pointless at this stage in using them.

 

[rolande]

Never had queen losses in feeders with syrup that I can remember but we do use fondant now simply because it's easier to prepare a batch of feeders in the shed then drop them in the nuc 'complete' as and when needed.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Never had queen losses in feeders with syrup that I can remember but we do use fondant now simply because it's easier to prepare a batch of feeders in the shed then drop them in the nuc 'complete' as and when needed.

Much of a comparison when drawing comb... Fondant vs syrup?
Syrup does stimulate differently.

 

[rolande]

Much of a comparison when drawing comb... Fondant vs syrup?
Syrup does stimulate differently.

Most of our mating nucs are made up from overwintered units so they start the season with combs, stores and brood.

That said, we have made some of our smaller nucs up from scratch with fondant and not seen any issue at all. If they want comb they'll draw it, at least, that's been the case here.

Ideally, with our main mating nucs we'd just use combs of stores provisioned by support colonies but the last handful of years our flow has been quite bad through June so we keep feeders and a box of fondant at the ready. In the main we're approaching mating nucs from two opposite directions so your need to get comb drawn in part to tie the new colony together isnt something we generally factor in.

One of the small ones started straight from foundation on fondant:
View attachment 27746

But as I say, we prefer to overwinter the mating nuc combs with bees on them.

 

[Curly green finger's]

Most of our mating nucs are made up from overwintered units so they start the season with combs, stores and brood.

That said, we have made some of our smaller nucs up from scratch with fondant and not seen any issue at all. If they want comb they'll draw it, at least, that's been the case here.

Ideally, with our main mating nucs we'd just use combs of stores provisioned by support colonies but the last handful of years our flow has been quite bad through June so we keep feeders and a box of fondant at the ready. In the main we're approaching mating nucs from two opposite directions so your need to get comb drawn in part to tie the new colony together isnt something we generally factor in.

One of the small ones started straight from foundation on fondant:
View attachment 27745View attachment 27746

But as I say, we prefer to overwinter the mating nuc combs with bees on them.
View attachment 27747

It would speed things up to doing what your doing with the donation colonys.
And also being able to asses winter capability/stability of the colony and fecundness of the queen over a longer time for selection.
Thanks for sharing mate you've give me some ideas for next year, inspiring!
Your home made kit looks tidy

 

[rolande]

Your home made kit looks tidy

Our ability to produce what we need has improved no end, everything in these photos was an early prototype. There's a totally new generation of boxes being built this winter which will tie everything together and our twin boxes (thread in the registry forum) will also be on the same footprint as a wooden 5 frame bs nuc in future. It's taken years of tweaks to get this all organized. I knew what I wanted to do but wasn't 100% certain of how I was going to do it. Now I do know!

 

[Curly green finger's]

Our ability to produce what we need has improved no end, everything in these photos was an early prototype. There's a totally new generation of boxes being built this winter which will tie everything together and our twin boxes (thread in the registry forum) will also be on the same footprint as a wooden 5 frame bs nuc in future. It's taken years of tweaks to get this all organized. I knew what I wanted to do but wasn't 100% certain of how I was going to do it. Now I do know!

Good things come to those that wait, I will definitely be picking your brains in the future if that's OK.

 

[rolande]

Good things come to those that wait, I will definitely be picking your brains in the future if that's OK.

Slim pickings. But feel free.

 

[Repwoc]

Kielers, I could cut some qx down to fit over the feeder that would work.

I always use fondant in my Kielers.

 

[Brenda]

Evening I have lost two queen's this season in mini nucs because they got into the feeders and drowned, even though I used grass for the girls to walk over.

I was wondering about using fondant instead or do folk on here have any other thoughts or ideas pls.
Thanks
Mark.

I always use fondant for my mini nuc

 

[papa_sierra]

We use Kieler mini nucs, and cut down a plastic queen excluder to fit and glued it onto one of the frames then placed next to the feeder.
We had a queenless nuc so made up a crown board with a matching hole to mate with the bottom hole in the Kieler and paper united them.
Queen took to it well and is now laying in the nuc.

 

[Patrick1]

I always use syrup but I use straw, it tends to float better
I always use syrup but I use straw, it tends to float better, never had a queen get through to the feeder before, we use mainly cheap Chinese ones although with plastic foundation.

 

[madasafish]

I only use fondant. Both in QR and overwintering.

I overwinter bees in Insulated Mini nucs - fondant on top of the frames is the only way to do so here: the cold means bees will not enter the feed section and will starve. Space is limited so monthly feeding is required.
I wrap fondant in clingfilm or grease proof paper - with a cut opened on the bottom. Lift the plastic film crownboard at one side, remove used clingfilm, replace with new, replace CB Makes winter feeding - even on very cold days - a very quick procedure - approx 30seconds. Then replace roof/covers/straps etc which takes rather longer.

 

[Curly green finger's]

I only use fondant. Both in QR and overwintering.

I overwinter bees in Insulated Mini nucs - fondant on top of the frames is the only way to do so here: the cold means bees will not enter the feed section and will starve. Space is limited so monthly feeding is required.
I wrap fondant in clingfilm or grease proof paper - with a cut opened on the bottom. Lift the plastic film crownboard at one side, remove used clingfilm, replace with new, replace CB Makes winter feeding - even on very cold days - a very quick procedure - approx 30seconds. Then replace roof/covers/straps etc which takes rather longer.

I am thinking about wintering 2 mini nucs for the first time are you using part of a QX to rest your fondant on thin metal one? These are kieler boxes?
There would be enough of a void for thin qx and some fondant