Uniting? with possible queen present!

[bbop]

We had a problem hive that seemed back on track after various issues including a drone laying queen. We introduced a mated laying queen (marked and clipped) in early July, and all seemed fine with Bias etc until mid September when she was not to be found and there was some sealed QCs. left one that seems to have been vacated around late Sep / early Oct.

Now there are 5/6 frames with bees and stores but no brood sealed or otherwise.
'Brood cells' have been left empty. A queen has not been seen. She may have died or be a small virgin...or..?

We want to unite this hive with another similar sized hive that has developed and increased from a recaptured clipped queen and a frame of bees.

Given that there may be a queen present is it too risky to unite the first hive with the second hive? Do unmated Virgin Queens pose the same threat as a mated Queen? Might there be a mated queen present, that we have missed, and who would not be laying because of the temperature / time of year?

Should we use some sort straining method i.e. through a QE to be sure there is no queen present?

Any helpful answers greatly appreciated

 

[REDWOOD]

Yes virgin and mated queens have the same effect, add a frame of eggs or comb with a few eggs in it if possible as this time of year you can be hard pushed to find any, this will determine if you have a queen in some state in your hive. You might be lucky and get a spare queen of someone if they start to build queen cells.
It is not uncommon to find no BIAS at this time of year

You can shake the bees over a QE and smoke them down which will leave you with a queen and possibly drones providing shes not a small scrub queen

 

[Hivemaker.]

Any helpful answers greatly appreciated

Still the same answer as yesterday...

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showpost.php?p=507960&postcount=14

 

[enrico]

Personally, I would wait until spring! The bees will survive the winter provided they have enough stores, on the first warm day of Spring look in and see what is what! They may not be a strong hive but ......
E

 

[snelgrove]

Personally, I would wait until spring! The bees will survive the winter provided they have enough stores, on the first warm day of Spring look in and see what is what! They may not be a strong hive but ......
E

I agree it's to late to to salvage, wait until spring you mite be surprised with a laying queen.

 

[bbop]

Thank you all for responding. Heres what we did.

We used QE to separate bees. Found the queen. United the bulk of the bees with the other small but queen right colony and these seem to be thriving.

Put separate queen with the remaining bees into a double deck apidea (with super!). She was a good size and may have mated.

Thanks again,

bbop

 

[Finman]

.
I shaked my colony in front of the hive tio be United.

There was exccvluder against the wall and entrance that queen cannot pas the excluder.

Next Morning there was a small cluster against the excluder and a queen inside the cluster.

Second case:

I killed a queen from a hive.

Then I shaked the colony in front of the hive. Next week I found a small cluster under the entrance and a marked queen among them. I think that the queen did not marshed into the hive and starved with small gang.

.