Uniting Poly nucs

[k9rml]

Hi, while I was away last week a friend caught 2 small cast swarms and put them in separate poly nucs at each end of the apiary each poly nuc is only covering two frames of bees, I have not been in to look for the queens yet. How is the best way to unite the poly nucs together so that they are covering four frames and hopefully be able to get them built up for winter?

 

[oliver90owner]

Putting one on top of the other with a sheet of newspaper between would work if they are sensible nuc hives.

They may not have considered more thansimply holding bees when your nucs were designed, mind.

Btw, it will be 'it' not 'them' after uniting.

 

[k9rml]

Hi Oliver, the two poly nucs - the floors are not removable, would it be ok to put each of the two frames of bees into separate WBC brood boxes with no other frames in and use the newspaper method to unite them and then put them back into a poly nuc to over winter

 

[iand]

Hi Oliver, the two poly nucs - the floors are not removable, would it be ok to put each of the two frames of bees into separate WBC brood boxes with no other frames in and use the newspaper method to unite them and then put them back into a poly nuc to over winter

We sometimes re queen prior to the heather using newspaper in the same box. Make a space in the recipient box plus a bit extra for elbow space. We line the hole with paper and a bit extra for on top. We insert usually 2 frames with new Q in the middle, fold the extra bit on top to seal the "envelope". Then move the other frames back into position. For langstroth we find the Yorkshire Post an ideal size, if a smaller paper you may need extra sheets, then it gets fiddly.

 

[oliver90owner]

There lies the problem of describing simply as 'poly nucs'. We are left guessing as to what you actually have.

I would likely spray them with a scented spray and put them in one nuc when one queen is a proven layer. Might just get rid of both queens and take a health chance and introduce a laying queen to the united bees. Lots of other options, I suppose.

Let them expand and maybe run them through winter as full colonies or nucs, dependent on development, unite together or with other colonies in the autumn if proven healthy, maybe even keeping the young queens to head the wintering colonies.

One further question might be : Were these casts from your hive (s)?

They may be less than four frames of bees by the time any new bees emerge. You might consider adding emerging brood at some point, which may open up another set of options.

My advice is to sort out what your targets are and map out the possibilities with simple development time lines. Then work towards them. Uniting now is just one possibility of several.

 

[Jimy Dee]

Hi K9, I am going to be shot for saying this, but take the bees to another apiary at least 3 miles away and put the two of them right alongside one another. After a few days when the bees have oriented, then unite by the paper method (prick plenty holes in the paper) but turn one of the nucs upside down to unite. That is - one will be upright and the other one upside down sitting on top. By the following morning both should have united and you can put all viable combs into the one poly hive. Your bees will not die as a result of being turned upside down for 12 hours or so, it will lead to a bit of disruption but they will get over it. Let us know how you will get on.

 

[Jimy Dee]

Forgot to say (before the mob get excited) my advise is based on experience and not some mad idea. It works perfectly well.

 

[Outlander]

We sometimes re queen prior to the heather using newspaper in the same box. Make a space in the recipient box plus a bit extra for elbow space. We line the hole with paper and a bit extra for on top. We insert usually 2 frames with new Q in the middle, fold the extra bit on top to seal the "envelope". Then move the other frames back into position. For langstroth we find the Yorkshire Post an ideal size, if a smaller paper you may need extra sheets, then it gets fiddly.

I like the sound of this idea, and if reading right it's just a sideways version to a usual paper unite. I know several old beeks that throw the swarms in together. Some say to work they have to be new swarms and at least three swarms. I have tried it and I was very surprised how well it went. I expected carnage but nothing. I have also put two swarms together and also worked. I always give a very quick squirter of Airwick. Don't know how well it would work with yours as they have been left a while. Again I have met beeks who take three colonies and chequer board the frames and it works but then you only have two.

I think I would try the paper unite mentioned.

 

[Erichalfbee]

This is where I find my Pain poly nucs invaluable. They may have a non removable floor but they do have exceedingly versatile ekes. Three ekes will happily make a deep and frames can be transferred there and colonies combined.

 

[Outlander]

Forgot to say (before the mob get excited) my advise is based on experience and not some mad idea. It works perfectly well.

If it work Jim then why not but must get a little awkward. I'm having visions of you turning a box full of bees with frames upside down, placing it on top of the other whilst trying to stop frames falling out. BTW nice red jumper.

 

[Outlander]

This is where I find my Pain poly nucs invaluable. They may have a non removable floor but they do have exceedingly versatile ekes. Three ekes will happily make a deep and frames can be transferred there and colonies combined.

And that's even a better idea. Next time I order some I'm going to double up on eeks.

 

[k9rml]

Hi, thanks for the replies, some food for thought. Sorry Oliver for not making it clear that the nucs are paynes, the casts were from my hive, I made a couple of nucs up with sealed queen cells and frames of brood and eggs; never gave it a thought that they would build up more q cells with already having a sealed one in there. Lesson learned, thank you for helping. Hi Jimy, think I will try your method, I will wait until the q's are laying and take one away then turn one upside down on top of the other as there won't be many frames of bees. Hi Iand, I think your method sounds handy as well.

 

[ratcatcher]

I will wait until the q's are laying and take one away then turn one upside down on top of the other as there won't be many frames of bees. Hi Iand, I think your method sounds handy as well.

much simpler to do it this way


http://youtu.be/O4sS_Gc529E

 

[keith pierce]

pity they are not side by side. what I is move them to an out apiary side by side leave for a few days. If they are in poly, I will transfer them into a wooden nuc with an open entrance so it is not familiar to either. Select the queen you want to keep and cage her. Split the bees by alternating the frames as you take them out of the nucs. Insert your laying queen and they will have her out the next day with absolutely no fighting at all, due to the confusion.
No smoke needed. you can transfer back into a poly in a few days.

 

[Jimy Dee]

K9 and Outlander - it helps if all is stuck together with propolis but if not just a few wraps of fishing gut all around the box with a piece of packing to neutralise the top bee space - this stops the frames falling out. Gut can be cut afterwards or just left in place till the following day when you are putting things right again. Bees have no problem with being turned upside down. Be gentle of course.

K9 - what ever system you use please let us know how it works. Could you be coaxed to do a utube vid?

 

[thorn]

. For langstroth we find the Yorkshire Post an ideal size, if a smaller paper you may need extra sheets, then it gets fiddly.

Ah! a use for the Yorkshire Post for those who don't have cats.