Type of shook swarm

[dto001]

Hi all,
I hope everyone is good and keeping safe.

Anyway I'm just wondering about a method of swarm control I heard about at a meeting but I didn't catch the full piece.
From what I got is that you put an empty brood box on the bottom with new foundation or empty drawn frames. Then you shake all the bees into it and then put a queen excluder on top of the brood box and the original brood box with the brood on top (making sure there are new eggs) and this allows nurse bees up to the brood and leave it for an hour or two then remove the top brood box and set up as a new hive.

Is this called the shook swarm? I've been reading about the shook swarm on Dave Cushmans site but it only says its for treating excessive mites or EFB or changing out wax. Is it an effective method of swarm control?

Cheers

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Shook swarm a duffer's trick, a favourite of the non thinking certificate waving mob in the BBKA
an awful intrusive and stressful way to treat your bees.
The only time a shook swarm should be contemplated is if you (God forbid) find EFB and the NBU allow you to treat it by shook swarm.
Nobody in their right mind, who cares about their bees, or actually knows a bit about beekeeping would shook swarm their bees.
I advise you park the idea and look at proper, sensible methods of swarm control.
I don't know what the method they were talking about in your meeting was, sounds very strange.

 

[Erichalfbee]

Hi all,
I hope everyone is good and keeping safe.

Anyway I'm just wondering about a method of swarm control I heard about at a meeting but I didn't catch the full piece.
From what I got is that you put an empty brood box on the bottom with new foundation or empty drawn frames. Then you shake all the bees into it and then put a queen excluder on top of the brood box and the original brood box with the brood on top (making sure there are new eggs) and this allows nurse bees up to the brood and leave it for an hour or two then remove the top brood box and set up as a new hive.

Is this called the shook swarm? I've been reading about the shook swarm on Dave Cushmans site but it only says its for treating excessive mites or EFB or changing out wax. Is it an effective method of swarm control?

Cheers

Forget it.
Why some people find newer and newer ways to abuse their bees is beyond me.
Have a look here for some sensible methods
http://www.wbka.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Swarm-Control-Wally-Shaw.pdf

In addition look up Pagden and Demaree

 

[Swarm]

It sounds like a 'forced Pagden'.

 

[Erichalfbee]

It sounds like a 'forced Pagden'.

But won’t ALL the bees end up upstairs?

 

[beeno]

It sounds like a 'forced Pagden'.

Yes, if you are unable to find the queen.

 

[Swarm]

All the bees are shaken into the bottom box, below an excluder, the queen will be in the bottom box.
The wait is to allow the nurse bees up to cover the brood before removing it to a new position. The foragers are still coming back to the box of foundation, which also contains the queen.

 

[Murox]

One could of course just find the Q and temporarily cage her, then manipulate the frames as desired and pop her back in the bottom box, no need to shake anything.

 

[Erichalfbee]

All the bees are shaken into the bottom box, below an excluder, the queen will be in the bottom box.
The wait is to allow the nurse bees up to cover the brood before removing it to a new position. The foragers are still coming back to the box of foundation, which also contains the queen.

Of course I should have read it better.
If you can’t find the queen then surely Wally Shaws modified snelgrove is a much better option.

 

[dto001]

would it be possible to put the brood box on top of a new box without a queen excluder smoke them down then add the queen excluder after?

 

[Erichalfbee]

would it be possible to put the brood box on top of a new box without a queen excluder smoke them down then add the queen excluder after?

A Simple question.
Never mind what you’ve read that propelled you to your original question. What are YOU actually trying to achieve?

 

[dto001]

Basically I would like to do some swarm control without having to find the queen.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I would just practice finding the queen

 

[Erichalfbee]

Basically I would like to do some swarm control without having to find the queen.

Then look up modified snelgrove in the link I posted. I put it there for you to look at so maybe I suggest you do.
Sieving bees is a last ditch measure when all else has failed. At least try something else.
Haven’t you a bee buddy to find your queen for you?

 

[Madge]

Then look up modified snelgrove in the link I posted. I put it there for you to look at so maybe I suggest you do.
Sieving bees is a last ditch measure when all else has failed. At least try something else.
Haven’t you a bee buddy to find your queen for you?

All those diagrams in that booklet can be overwhelming to a new beekeeper.

Dani is referring to the modified Snelgrove, or Snelgrove II, on page 17 of that booklet. With that manoeuvre you move the queen and all the brood minus one brood frame aside - so, no need to find the queen. The flying bees return to the original site.