Two Questions

[Floyd]

Hello guys,

Just two things. I have an excess of kingspan would it be a good idea to insulate the outside of wooden hives, or do you think that this could cause moisture issues.

Also. I have a 5 frame nuc, would there be any problems putting it into a spare hive body and filling up the gaps with Kingspan.

The forum has certainly slowed down, need to find other stuff to do when having my morning cuppa.

Many thanks for everyone's continued support throughout the year.

Lee

 

[user 6228]

Hello guys,

Just two things. I have an excess of kingspan would it be a good idea to insulate the outside of wooden hives, or do you think that this could cause moisture issues.

Also. I have a 5 frame nuc, would there be any problems putting it into a spare hive body and filling up the gaps with Kingspan.

The forum has certainly slowed down, need to find other stuff to do when having my morning cuppa.

Many thanks for everyone's continued support throughout the year.

Lee

if you make an insulated hat to go over the hive and SEAL all of the joints on the inside and outside of the kingspan then the condensation will occur at the bottom of the hat. i

 

[MuswellMetro]

Hello guys,

Just two things. I have an excess of kingspan would it be a good idea to insulate the outside of wooden hives, or do you think that this could cause moisture issues.

Also. I have a 5 frame nuc, would there be any problems putting it into a spare hive body and filling up the gaps with Kingspan.

The forum has certainly slowed down, need to find other stuff to do when having my morning cuppa.

Many thanks for everyone's continued support throughout the year.

Lee

i am using a kingspan wide dummy board on late swarms on 7 or 8 14x12 seams of bees

you need to seal the soft edges though, i use aluminium foil sealng tapeeae

 

[Dishmop]

Probably a better idea might be to make a shelter/windbreak with the Kingspan.

 

[richardbees]

Why not just cut the kingspan into sheets to cover the sides of the nuc box that you can wrap round with tape?

 

[fincaazul]

Hello guys,

Just two things. I have an excess of kingspan would it be a good idea to insulate the outside of wooden hives, or do you think that this could cause moisture issues.

Also. I have a 5 frame nuc, would there be any problems putting it into a spare hive body and filling up the gaps with Kingspan.

The forum has certainly slowed down, need to find other stuff to do when having my morning cuppa.

Many thanks for everyone's continued support throughout the year.

Lee

who seals up or insulates the many wild colonies that exist? We seem to be rather anthropomorphic with our bees they can do pretty well without us, and will continue long after we are gone, if we don't bugger them up with our 'civilised technologies'

 

[Arfermo]

Because of the lousy forecast for this winter I have been asking around and have been told that any insulation with keep the bees warmer will induce them to eat far more that they would otherwise. For that reason, in case of starvation, best leave alone for them to huddle up like they know best. The expert (Master Beekeeper) also said to leave the OMF open as well as a hole in the CB and it will result in the bees actually coming out of winter in a better state than otherwise in his experience, especially if the cold period is in one lump and constant within normal parameters. I've never insulated yet and I'm not going to start now in view of what I've been advised. Your choice.

 

[itma]

Because of the lousy forecast for this winter I have been asking around and have been told that any insulation with keep the bees warmer will induce them to eat far more that they would otherwise. ...

Not quite true - according to Seeley.


The graph of consumption against temperature has a minimum consumption at about 10C. Below that, consumption only rises slowly, down to about -6C.
So, if the insulation is raising the temperature for the bees above 10C then, yes that would increase stores consumption. But raising the temperature towards 10C will *not* increase the bees' eating rate - it will actually reduce it.
So a very well insulated hive might be a liability in a very mild winter, but certainly not during a big freeze.
When the weather is really (Finnish) cold, insulation will help to allow the cluster to be slightly looser, and thus more mobile around the hive, reducing the risk of isolation starvation (not being able to move to frames that have plenty stores).

For me the principal advantage of a well-insulated crownboard would seem to be minimisation of condensation above the cluster.
The bees might cope with cold, but cold and damp is much more dangerous.
Not damp and and merely 'cool' (about 5C) is much better.



/ According to derekm's measurements, a dead tree cavity is better insulated than any commercial hive.

Excess Kingspan?
1/ buy more hives!
2/ build yourself an efficient solar wax melter
3/ try and build one of derekm's Kingspan hives ... / he uses v similar Recticel

 

[user 6228]

Because of the lousy forecast for this winter I have been asking around and have been told that any insulation with keep the bees warmer will induce them to eat far more that they would otherwise. For that reason, in case of starvation, best leave alone for them to huddle up like they know best. The expert (Master Beekeeper) also said to leave the OMF open as well as a hole in the CB and it will result in the bees actually coming out of winter in a better state than otherwise in his experience, especially if the cold period is in one lump and constant within normal parameters. I've never insulated yet and I'm not going to start now in view of what I've been advised. Your choice.

This is a common distortion of the facts of the research.
The bees are unsual in that they can have two metabolic rate minimas.
The cold minima only occurs in large clusters >1.7 Kg (Southwick).

The distortion is to conclude that the cold minima is the normal wintering state and desirable.

If the bees "normal" habitat is the mean in the tree nest survey by Tom Seeley ,then one can safely say that they do not need to use the cold minima behaviour, when in their normal habitat in the climate of the United Kingdom (unpublished research D Mitchell) .

The obvious conclusion is that the bees only use this minima when their habitat is severely compromised compared to "normal".

If you want more information on this wait till my paper is published.

 

[user 6228]

who seals up or insulates the many wild colonies that exist? We seem to be rather anthropomorphic with our bees they can do pretty well without us, and will continue long after we are gone, if we don't bugger them up with our 'civilised technologies'

You have it the wrong way round its us that destroy their nest sites and then put bees in boxes that leak large fractions of their heat.
The bees would be better off, thermally,without us and our hives, by a large margin
if they had the hollow trees to nest in.

(btw the sealing is done by the bees, they are quite good at it )

 

[tonybloke]

when in their normal habitat in the climate of the United Kingdom (unpublished research D Mitchell)

aren't honey bees an introduced species ?
therefore, there is NO normal habitat for them in the UK, tree or otherwise.

 

[user 6228]

aren't honey bees an introduced species ?
therefore, there is NO normal habitat for them in the UK, tree or otherwise.

An introduced species like oaks and nearly all the flora and fauna that came in as the ice retreated.
Apis Mellifera Mellifera is identified as indigenous to northern Europe including the British isles.
They were here before the wooden or plastic boxes, or the straw skeps.

 

[tonybloke]

An introduced species like oaks and nearly all the flora and fauna that came in as the ice retreated.

erm,
http://www.ashridgetrees.co.uk/native-trees-britain

 

[itma]

Tony, the nit-picking point is about the timescale. They are saying 10k years. Derek is saying 'go back a little bit further'.
Points about whether AMM or mongrels with varying degrees of recently imported euro-genes are also dancing on the head of a pin.

The general point is not *greatly* affected by the detailed pedantry.
Have they done detailed cancer testing on every single brand of cigarette? Doesn't make any of them safe!

 

[user 6228]

Tony, the nit-picking point is about the timescale. They are saying 10k years. Derek is saying 'go back a little bit further'.
Points about whether AMM or mongrels with varying degrees of recently imported euro-genes are also dancing on the head of a pin.

The general point is not *greatly* affected by the detailed pedantry.
Have they done detailed cancer testing on every single brand of cigarette? Doesn't make any of them safe!

definitely no oaks in northern britiain during the ice age
is tony asserting that bees arrived after the land bridge was inundated
And isnt dancing on the head of pin what this forum is about

 

[richardbees]

I do like browsing through this forum!

Looking at the Ashridge trees site - why would stone age man make a point of lugging Beech tree saplings around? They make decorative hedging but what else gives them extra value over all the other existing trees?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

And isnt dancing on the head of pin what this forum is about

Actually you will find that the original theological debate was about how many angels can dance on the point of a needle (not that I'm being pedantic ! )

 

[BeeJayBee]

- why would stone age man make a point of lugging Beech tree saplings around? They make decorative hedging but what else gives them extra value over all the other existing trees?

They might not have moved the saplings around, but they probably carried the seed to eat.