Two Queens In Hive

[MuswellMetro]

not unusual for a hive low on stores not to feed the queen and therefore no brood especially at this time of year when she is about to stop laying for winter

but saying that they can get demoralised if robbed and stop feeding her and the cycle just gets worse until the hive fails

i have anecdotally found that this year a lot of early mated queens have superseded in august, i assume the cold weather in spring meant they did not have good mating flights or the weather reduced drone production

so it could also be the queen not laying that has demoralised the nuc and reduced the workforce and allowing the robbing,

anyway i stand by my august post i would have left the bees alone to sort it out and split in spring.

what to do now, 2 bee space entrance ,feed fondant and move to another location

 

[djg]

Thank you for your helpful and insightful responses. Some individual comments/plaudits:

RAB: Did not find queen on cursory inspection, since I was more focused on sugar dusting and closing up again. I can see why the answer to your question is crucial. Thanks for your rapid response and para-advice.

Polyhive: Points taken. My access depends on teacher friend, who was away for 1/2 term when weather was fine, so I was anxious to remove the varroa treatments and ensure that all was well inside post last-month's "rendition" to NW6. Thank you for being so generous (and consistent!) sharing your experience with newer beeks.

MuswellMetro: Another well-thought-through and constructive suggestion. Most welcome.

All I need to do now is to avoid cherrying-picking a nugget of advice from each of the above, combining them to form a plan of action and create a real disaster !

Thanks again, guys.

 

[oliver90owner]

Well now, if you don't know whether she was there, I wouldn't know what to do.

Not there would be looking for a window of opportunity to unite them. Certainly not the next few days! Possibly no further chance at all. But for that reason I would be waiting for the opportunity.

As I said, if she was there, moving the colony is likely the better option. Again, if the weather turns pleasant (ha ha) the robbing could be total.

A rock and a hard place at this time of the year.

Regards, RAB

 

[MuswellMetro]

monthly forecast issued 29 October 2010 30 day ahead forecast, so not a hope of a combine

NOVEMBER 2010
See www.weatheraction.com

- Headline Summary
A mixed start with a notable storm with gales, deluges and
flash floods early in month.Some cold spells with some sleet or snow later; and a mild and windy/stormy month end.
© Weather Action™& Piers Corbyn™ © accept no liability for any loss

First ten days: A short cold start then milder with a major storm
with wind damage and local floods especially in Ireland and
South-West England. Colder North-Easterly flow follows with
High pressure in Atlantic, Ireland & Scotland and snow in North-East parts.
#
Second ten days: Higher pressure over Ireland and South-
West gives North-Westerly winds over most of England and rain
with more mobile flow in Scotland and Generally cold.

Last ten days: Includes waves of heavy rain and some local floods mainly in
Ireland & Central / South England & Wales followed by some cold Northerly /
North-Easterly blasts with snow at times especially in North-East parts. A mild and stormy (especially in the west) month end.

 

[madasafish]

monthly forecast issued 29 October 2010 30 day ahead forecast, so not a hope of a combine

NOVEMBER 2010
See www.weatheraction.com

- Headline Summary
A mixed start with a notable storm with gales, deluges and
flash floods early in month.Some cold spells with some sleet or snow later; and a mild and windy/stormy month end.
© Weather Action™& Piers Corbyn™ © accept no liability for any loss

First ten days: A short cold start then milder with a major storm
with wind damage and local floods especially in Ireland and
South-West England. Colder North-Easterly flow follows with
High pressure in Atlantic, Ireland & Scotland and snow in North-East parts.
#
Second ten days: Higher pressure over Ireland and South-
West gives North-Westerly winds over most of England and rain
with more mobile flow in Scotland and Generally cold.

Last ten days: Includes waves of heavy rain and some local floods mainly in
Ireland & Central / South England & Wales followed by some cold Northerly /
North-Easterly blasts with snow at times especially in North-East parts. A mild and stormy (especially in the west) month end.

Whatever happened to Global Warming?

 

[Skyhook]

Whatever happened to Global Warming?

I shall assume that was informed irony, not merely a misunderstanding of the term.

Don't get me started, I might never stop.

 

[Adam]

Thanks for your extremely constructive responses.

I will hold off any hasty action (pesumably they have co-existed for a fortnight already, without coming to blows) and take on board the advice to "listen to the bees" and remove the (marginally) older Queen to overwinter in the mating nuc (with young bees, as suggested).

Any more bright ideas out there ?

I'd suggest the fact they are co-existing means the old queen probably is failing, probably isn't being fed as well, (and hence producing little queen substance) and will likely die in days or weeks. Late autumn is not the time to start fiddling about. If you wanted to take a nuc through the winter, you should have done it months ago.

Taking the old queen into a nuc will probably just leave the nuc queenless after Christmas. Why choose an old, failling queen and suddenly try and make her viable. They presumably superceeded her as she's had it.

Just leave them along and stop interfering. You're more likely to squash the good queen, get her balled, or at best end up with a queenless nuc in the spring. I think you are meddling at your peril.

Adam

 

[Silly Bee]

Whatever happened to Global Warming? madasafish


That term is falling from grace, it's now Climate change.

 

[Hebeegeebee]

Sugar dusting in November?!?!?!?

 

[Dishmop]

Sugar dusting in November?!?!?!?

Christmas decorations....

 

[For want of a better word]

I shall assume that was informed irony, not merely a misunderstanding of the term.

Don't get me started, I might never stop.

Prefer Global Climate Change.... actually the planet is cooling down at the moment

Google "Milencovich Cycles" and you will be as totally confused as I am
not sure of spellin but then I'm dyslexic........................

 

[Hivemaker.]

actually the planet is cooling down at the moment

Shhh, don't tell everyone there is another ice age on it's way.

 

[Finman]

.
Ice ace has begun in Lapland. It is - 18C there. In South Finland here it is now - 5C and snow storm is coming. Day temp is 0C.

But I ate today strawberries from my green house.

 

[MuswellMetro]

Prefer Global Climate Change.... actually the planet is cooling down at the moment

Google "Milencovich Cycles" and you will be as totally confused as I am
not sure of spellin but then I'm dyslexic........................

it is http://www.homepage.montana.edu/~geol445/hyperglac/time1/milankov.htm

The cooling it nothing to do with Milankovitch, it is the variation in the Pacific Decadol oscillation and the change from El Nino to la Nina stable states

expect the winter of 2011 and 2012 to be colder if it follows the pattern it followed in the 70's

 

[the naked beekeeper]

Finding mother and daughter in the same hive is more common than one might think.
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFiZ_pk8Hq8&feature=player_embedded"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YFiZ_pk8Hq8&feature=player_embedded[/ame]

 

[Poly Hive]

Only those who mark, or clip, or clip and mark will see this happen. It was very common in my old AMM colonies, a good 40% usually.

PH

 

[the naked beekeeper]

A good trait IMO.
But yes, hard to spot unless there is some distinguishing mark, or they are both clearly on the same frame.

Once I interfered with the bees supercedure, mistakenly believeing it to be a swarm cell.
That was back when I was really a beginner and thought I could text book everything.......now I listen to the bees more. They know best. Simple as.

 

[djg]

I'd suggest the fact they are co-existing means the old queen probably is failing, probably isn't being fed as well, (and hence producing little queen substance) and will likely die in days or weeks. Late autumn is not the time to start fiddling about. If you wanted to take a nuc through the winter, you should have done it months ago.

Taking the old queen into a nuc will probably just leave the nuc queenless after Christmas. Why choose an old, failling queen and suddenly try and make her viable. They presumably superceeded her as she's had it.

Just leave them along and stop interfering. You're more likely to squash the good queen, get her balled, or at best end up with a queenless nuc in the spring. I think you are meddling at your peril.

Adam

I think that you are confused, or have skipped the middle bit of this thread.

You quote from my post on this thread of 12th August. That is when I was "fiddling about" deciding what to do about the two queens. So, as you your suggested I should have, I actually did "do it months ago".

You also characterise the mother as a "old Queen", although the thread makes it clear that she was introduced this year as a 2010 Queen. Quite possibly useless, but certainly not old.

Also, you seem to be under the impression that the Queens are still in the same hive, whereas the developing thread makes it clear that they are in separate colonies.

I'm delighted when other beeks chastise my actions and suggest alternative ways of solving problems (after 2 years, I have a lot to learn), but it does help all concerned if you have read the thread before offering forthright advice !

 

[Adam]

I think that you are confused, or have skipped the middle bit of this thread.

Both perhaps.... Whether she's old or failing is probably irrelevent, if they are superceeding her I think they will cease feeding her properly and she won't "come good" again. But bees never read the books so if they come through the winter and she puts in sterling service next year then you hunch to split them up will be proved correct.

I consider bees to be in full blown autumn preperations by the end of August so if they are superceeding her, then I think it's best left alone. There may be a long intervening period but they wouldn't normally create a new queen unless something was wrong with the old one.

Adam

 

[djg]

Sound advice, Adam, thanks. I have taken it on board.