treating a swarm for varroa

[Eyeman]

Powder or icing sugar is most effective when there is no capped brood present. I believe it to be ineffective in longterm varroa management in the presence of capped brood.
For swarms I use oxalic acid.
For newly mated queens in nucs I use 2 doses of icing sugar approx 2 days apart. The problem is getting the timing right- 3 nucs this year had loads of capped brood when I would have expected the queen to have only just started to lay.

 

[Finman]

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Bees need not all the time varroa control. Late summer and winter treatment are enough.

 

[Haughton Honey]

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Bees need not all the time varroa control. Late summer and winter treatment are enough.

I think iball's question Finman was do you think thymolised syrup (used either during the summer or the autumn) works against varroa?

 

[Finman]

I think iball's question Finman was do you think thymolised syrup (used either during the summer or the autumn) works against varroa?

Absolutly no.

 

[iball]

I'm trying to get my head around this and understand the mechanism as to how Thymol works in treating Varroa, perhaps that should read as managing Varroa.

Using a product such as Apiguard for treating Varroa the manufacturers claim that "under normal conditions giving an average efficacy of 93%".

If we look at a management scenario of a newly hived nuc or swarm,where we're expecting a lot of new foundation to be drawn, then does the use of introducing Thymol into the syrup help in managing Varroa?

I've not yet got close enough to Apiguard to know what it smells like, but perhaps the levels of Thymol in a syrup, 5 to 10 ml per 4.5 litres, are too low to have any significant effect.

Having said that I don't believe it does any harm and can be efficacious against Nosema and perhaps in a small way could be one weapon in our arsenal of Varroa management techniques.

Ian

Having just read the Q and As from Apiguard http://www.vita-europe.com/Map_enscript/frmbuilder.php?dateiname=%2Fen%2Fproducts%2Fapiguard.htm I think I have a better understanding of how Thymol works and Finmans reasons for saying Thymolised syrup doesn't work against Varroa.

 

[Finman]

I think I have a better understanding of how Thymol works and Finmans reasons for saying Thymolised syrup doesn't work against Varroa.

I have nursed bees 47 years and and can say that you do not understand this issue not at all. I just happen to know.

Read closer: "At low temperatures (shown by trials in Germany ) APIGUARD takes longer to evaporate and the lower activity of the bees means that gel is not distributed as efficiently. It is therefore essential to use APIGUARD when the colony is active and when temperatures are not too low (above 15°C/60°F) Apiguard will work at lower temperatures although the treatment period may need to be extended; the level of efficacy is generally better at higher temperatures but studies on cool period treatments are ongoing."

Nowere is said that bees drink it or eate it.

 

[BKF Admin]

Iball,interesting that you talk about Thymol and Nosema.
When I feed I always add a small amount of Thymol to syrup,I feel that not only does it help control Nosema(maybe its due to the fact that th syrup will not ferment when thymol is added so does not give the bees the trots)but I believe it is a good allround tonic against many other woe's.

 

[Finman]

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but I believe it is a good allround tonic against many other woe's.

Said the witch doctor.......Bee diseases are seirious question. Your burn your hives but you should burn your witch doctors too in same fire.

 

[BKF Admin]

Finman you are a scientist.
In your mind if a paper has not been produced and peer reviewed then something does not exist.
Just because it cannot be explained does not mean it is not true,just unproven.

My belief is that essential oils are underused in beekeeping,they are not a magic bullet but then neither are many of the products licensed to pharmalogical companies that are thrown at us beekeepers every few years.

 

[Finman]

My belief is that essential oils are underused in beekeeping,.

Beekeepers have so much in their heads. Should I run after when some one hive beekeeper say something?
Have I learnt during my life something?

You should get knowledge and you have brains to selcet which seems to be good. To run without knowledge and not use brains - is that the goal?


Thymol was used in syrup 45 years ago when I started beekeeping.
I have never used it in syrup because if the feeding box is clean the concentration of sugar keeps clean and unfermented.

If the syrup has some dirty and it is long over the hive, it may ferment when it gets condensation water from the cover.

Of course you may do with your hives what you want, but worst is to argue with one hive owner and to be wrong......:

 

[Rosti]

When I feed I always add a small amount of Thymol to syrup,I feel that not only does it help control Nosema(maybe its due to the fact that th syrup will not ferment when thymol is added so does not give the bees the trots)but I believe it is a good allround tonic against many other woe's.

Admin, I am interested in your 'small amount', can you clarify please - when routinely adding to syrup as a 'precautionary' or 'pick-me-up' ?

I don't add thymol routinely to syrup but as I recently wrote on here, 'if you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you always got!'

I can see the logic but interested in quantifying before giving it a go.

 

[iball]

Said the witch doctor.......Bee diseases are seirious question......................

Absolutely, I couldn't agree more, which is why I was raising the question as to whether a small amount of Thymolated syrup couldn't be used as a management tool at certain stages of a hives development.

One reason I can think of not using it is because the bees may get used to the smell and take longer to remove products such as Apiguard thus reducing its efficacy.

Ian

 

[Black Comb]

If you read this sticky and follow Hivemakers recipe I'm sure it will help.

http://www.beekeepingforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=702