Treat and feed at the same time?

[bees knees]

Hello all. It's looking seriously autumnal out there. We took honey off last week. Plan was to treat with apilife var (takes 4 weeks I think) then feed but just wondering if that's all going to be a late in the season. Is there any reason why we can't treat and feed at the same time? Where is everyone else at?

 

[For want of a better word]

Some put ( Hivemakers) formula of thymol into the sugar feed to stop mold growing... may also help prevent nosema in the bees... but not sure what the VMD would have to say about that as possibly a huge licence fee is not being collected by our Tory government so that they can give it to the privileged few in tax breaks so they can afford second homes in Cornwall ( not forgetting the £1Billion bribe to Ulster MPs for votes!)

Is it too early in the day to be cynical?

Yeghes da

 

[JWF]

Some put ( Hivemakers) formula of thymol into the sugar feed to stop mold growing... may also help prevent nosema in the bees... but not sure what the VMD would have to say about that as possibly a huge licence fee is not being collected by our Tory government so that they can give it to the privileged few in tax breaks so they can afford second homes in Cornwall ( not forgetting the £1Billion bribe to Ulster MPs for votes!)

Is it too early in the day to be cynical?

Yeghes da

It's never too early to be cynical lol

 

[fatshark]

I routinely used to feed 12.5 kg fondant blocks with Apiguard on at the same time. No problems.

 

[Finman]

.
IT is normal feed and treat at same time. So we do here.

To feed fondant in September... I do not understand.

To feed hive full with syrup costs £ 10 for winter.
.

 

[drex]

I start syrup feeding when I put on second dose of thymol. No problems with them taking the feed, by that time they are used to the stink. Much better success than when I used to feed when I first started the thymol. However, I do not feed that much, as I leave them what they have in the double brood, and ivy is abundant.

 

[fatshark]

.
IT is normal feed and treat at same time. So we do here.

To feed fondant in September... I do not understand.

To feed hive full with syrup costs £ 10 for winter.
.

It's easier to feed fondant. No feeders to store, no syrup to make (or buy), no syrup to spill or top up, no buckets or jerry cans.

Just slice a block in half with a spade and lay across the top bars.

Simples

 

[Finman]

It's easier to feed fondant. No feeders to store, no syrup to make (or buy), no syrup to spill or top up, no buckets or jerry cans.

Just slice a block in half with a spade and lay across the top bars.

Simples

IT is not easy to bees to forage water and dilute dry Sugar.

What I understand, British beekeepers do 10 times more work with bees than it is necessary.

To buy extra money £ 300 for "easy" . I fill the feeder with syrup 2-3 times and feeding is done. Feeding is easiest Job on beekeeping.

Like the best smoker in the world and then use the worst smoke material in £ 67 price smoker.

.

 

[fatshark]

Fondant isn't dry sugar. At least it isn't here.

Your feeding regime sounds more time-consuming than mine (less work, not 10 times more).

I've no idea what the £300 you've quoted is for.

I've not done a cost comparison exactly - sugar is ~£0.70/kg, fondant is ~£10 for 12.5kg (but isn't all sugar).

But my time and the hassle of making, storing, transporting syrup more than makes the extra cost worthwhile. Fondant stores well stacked in the corner of the shed.

And they do perfectly well on fondant.

 

[Finman]

Fondant isn't dry sugar. At least it isn't here.

Your feeding regime sounds more time-consuming than mine (less work, not 10 times more).

.

Less work that you can hang here on forum....

Ridiculous calculations....

When bees move syrup from feeder to cells and cap the food, they use 24% out of original sugar in prosessing.

Where is your calculations (researchers) how much bees use fondant in storing processing.

How many litres bees must carry water into the hive for fondant, because you do not have time to mix water and sugar ?

Why other beekeepers have that time? They use to give often too much water.


.
Your 10 hives is not so many that you do not have time to make mix 200 kg sugar and 100 litre water..

Fondant or normal sugar. Same sugar. But what idea it is to feed as dry sugar. You save no time from your life..

.

 

[Swarm]

Less work that you can hang here on forum....

.

Honestly? Look at the post count

 

[Finman]

Honestly? Look at the post count

That all I have done to save British beekeepers from false prophets. I have had nothing to learn here. Except English language.
.
And you Swarm, you have allways only barked after me. Wales members ... So they do

 

[Into the lions den]

Sorry Finman, but Fatshark is fairly spot on with some aspects of what he wrote.

Fondant feeding done correctly DOES work perfectly well and the bees do not need to collect water. The product is actually 82% sugars and 18% water...some variation between makers exists.

In the poly bag it comes in, with exposed surface downwards, the moisture rising out of the cluster in the warm air condenses on, or is hygroscopically absorbed by, the working face of the fondant.

It is NOT an inferior winter feed and correctly purchased is only marginally more expensive than syrup. It is a great winter food for when you are late getting all the syrup on.

However...on other points I agree with you....

Syrup feeding is easy and rapid and gives a nice heavy colony that need not have the top lifted until March at least. The need for less kit is an illusion, you still need some piece of gear to act as the headspace for the fondant to sit in. In fact a feeder is great for this..right way up for syrup, inverted to cover fondant. Some use an empty super...so where do they keep the spare frames/combs in winter?


OUR syrup feeding is ONE rapid visit...on with the feeder, tip in a bucket of syrup, close up, go away. In a month or so go round and the ones that have not taken their syrup fully are usually too small or have 'issues' and can be marked as probable duds.

So...we feed as many as possible with syrup in autumn, but happy to fall back on fondant if it gets late.......wintering performance is close to equal. fondant ones need more frequent checking for multiple reasons (not for this thread)

ps...if time is valuable, it takes two men 2.5 hours to cut a tonne of fondant into blocks and place in trays on the truck. That's a £50 per tonne cost we don't have with invert syrup in IBC's all ready to go out.

 

[Finman]

.
As I have said, winter feeding is easiest job in beekeeping, but expencive, but less than car driving.
I could live in Helsinki and look TV on soffa all days long, and save all money.

I need something to do and wonder, who stopped ths rain. My time has no value.

 

[ShinySideUp]

I am halfway through a course of Apiguard and have found that my nuc box with last years queen in it has no stores so have fed today with 1 1/2 to 1 (sugar/water) to try to keep the queen laying and also to accumulate some stores.

 

[mbc]

On the syrup vs fondant line it's worth remembering syrup is a far better stimulant for brood rearing and comb building than fondant.

 

[fatshark]

Thanks ITLD ... a bit more science than I'd provided.

Re. kit ... my crownboards have a deep upper rim so I just invert them when feeding fondant.

 

[Finman]

Sorry Finman, but Fatshark is fairly spot on with some aspects of what he wrote.

Fondant feeding done correctly DOES work perfectly well and the bees do not need to collect water. The product is actually 82% sugars and 18% water...some variation between makers exists.

In the poly bag it comes in, with exposed surface downwards, the moisture rising out of the cluster in the warm air condenses on, or is hygroscopically absorbed by, the working face of the fondant.


However...on other points I agree with out.

If I feed 66% sugar syrup, bees must get water from drinking place. I can see it from traffic and on water lily pond.

When I give extracted honey boxes to the hive, I give a faint water spray over the combs. I saw that bees do not rush out to get water, and they clean cells over night

I should put 30 kg fondant block over there hive for winter food in double brood. Where there?
Bees cannot move it in a week inside the hive.
.
Starch will be splitted too to sugars as well, before it goes into blood circulation.
.

 

[Finman]

.
I have never used fondant. Sorry. I use cheapest sugar. In emergy feeding I pour syrup directly into combs.

Inverted sugar is humbug. Cane sugar will be inverted / splitted in animals' stomach before it goes into blood circulation. No need to pay for that.

In spring I have normally so much winter food, that bees do not need spring feeding. I only move extra Sugar frames to another hives, or take out extra food to give laying space to queens. So much polyhives save stores. My hives live with sugar 9 months.

 

[MadAnt]

OMG! OMG!

I know someone local, who trying to be chemical-free, so he feeding 1:1 syrup with chili pepper and some herbs. So treat and feed same time.