Transferring bees from Nationals to 14 x 12

[Scillybee]

This is the start of my second year keeping bees - it's been a steep learning curve! This forum has provided me with much insight into how other beeks manage their bees and this is my first post.

I currently have national hives but have a couple of 14 x 12's to use this year - I want to trial their performance with the larger brood area. What are the techniques for introducing bees to this larger frame size from Nationals? (I remember seeing a post about this last year but I couldn't find it again...)

Thanks in advance for any replies!

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

A few options, in no particular order:

1) Shook swarm
2) Wait for the need to do an AS, and start the new one off there
3) A Bailey change (this is what I did this year, worked pretty well)


issues with 1) and 2) is that you presumably wont have any built comb so I believe they may be inclined to wander

 

[testka]

will be doing the same this year via the Bailey change route. did this last year to get them on new comb and worked real well.

sent using tapatalk

 

[MuswellMetro]

A few options, in no particular order:

1) Shook swarm
2) Wait for the need to do an AS, and start the new one off there
3) A Bailey change (this is what I did this year, worked pretty well)


issues with 1) and 2) is that you presumably wont have any built comb so I believe they may be inclined to wander

what does inclined to wander mean?

I hsve before now just placed the 5 standard brood frames in a box of frames of ( 1f 3B 1F 2B 4F) in a good flow and let get on with it, migrate out two or three of the standards later in the year,

However Artificial Swarm of old queen onto 14x12 once they make Queen cells and using the Q on the brood frame as a drone comb maker, solves two problems at once, then recombine with 14x12 on top of newspaper once the standard box produces your new queen,

if you want increase then an early bought queen plus a couple of standard frames+ 14x12 foundation in a dummied out 14x12 box, migrate all but one of the stadnrds out to the side later

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

what does inclined to wander mean?

I hsve before now just placed the 5 standard brood frames in a box of frames of ( 1f 3B 1F 2B 4F) in a good flow and let get on with it, migrate out two or three of the standards later in the year,

MM- simply that I've seen the suggestion that presenting an AS with just the one frame in a box full of foundation can discourage them to stay. As you suggest, doing it piece by piece in situ would also be a reasonable plan.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I did one with a Bailey and the other by catching one of my own swarms.....not that I'm suggesting you wait for yours to go.
Bailey worked well.
I had to shook swarm a small colony in a National and I hated losing all that brood. Doing a shook swarm for disease reasons is one thing but I can't reconcile killing brood just to change box size.

 

[Poly Hive]

To me this is so obvious it is blinding...

What is wrong with putting the new box on top of the old one using a bit of ply to act as the converter? Done it times moving bees from nat to Lang or tother way round.

KISS

PH

 

[Tom Bick]

Someone will point this out sooner rather than later PH so it may as well be me you don’t need a ply converter if converting from standard National to 14x12 they are the same footprint .

 

[MuswellMetro]

To me this is so obvious it is blinding...

What is wrong with putting the new box on top of the old one using a bit of ply to act as the converter? Done it times moving bees from nat to Lang or tother way round.

KISS

PH

why a converter when going from Nat to 14x12, the boxes are the same size but i agree if the Bees are strong and a strong flow is good then the KISS is as you say a bailey change

might still swarm later though ,so has he enough 14x12 boxes to double up for the subsequent AS and recombine thats why i suggested the other ways

 

[oliver90owner]

To me this is so obvious it is blinding...

Clearly!!

 

[Poly Hive]

As you can see I have never used the 14 x 12 but more important is the method.

Put the new one on top.

KISS you nit picking so and so's.

PH

 

[oliver90owner]

Put up with wild comb

Put something under any transferred brood combs into a 14 x 12 box (to avoid wild comb).

Frame convertors and foundation pieces from the likes of Th8rne.

Any of the above suggestions (apart from a special ply convertor)

If you have OSR, you could get really nicely drawn 14 x 12 frames by using the box as a super. Extract those frames and then change over. Need an appropriate extractor, though.

So, lots of ways to achieve the goal. Depends, really, on when you want to start the process for some of the alternatives. If your learning curve is still steep, choose an easy alternative.

RAB

 

[MuswellMetro]

KISS you nit picking so and so's.

PH

it is only because i am getting withdrawal symptoms from Bees, by the time i do my bailley's when the OSR comes in, i wont have time to pick any nits

 

[adrian wilford]

yep agree just put the new box on top when a flow is on, but if you have couple of drawn out frames even national ones the bees will go up sooner

 

[the naked beekeeper]

As PH says, but give em a top feeder to enourage them up to draw out the foundation.

You've got the perfect opportunity in Spring as the colony will be naturally increasing.

When you can see fresh eggs in the top box (14 x 12), make sure the Q is in there and slip a QX inbetween the boxes. Wait 3 weeks for all the brood to hatch from the bottom (National) box and ta dah!!!!!!!!!

With your National frames, you could put them above a cronwboard (in the National brood body) for the bees to take down into the 14x12, or you could use them to make nucs for swarm control/increase.

Always options...

 

[Monsieur Abeille]

will be doing the same this year via the Bailey change route. did this last year to get them on new comb and worked real well.

I did one with a Bailey and the other by catching one of my own swarms.....not that I'm suggesting you wait for yours to go.
Bailey worked well.

As you can see I have never used the 14 x 12 but more important is the method.

Put the new one on top.

yep agree just put the new box on top when a flow is on, but if you have couple of drawn out frames even national ones the bees will go up sooner

As PH says, but give em a top feeder to enourage them up to draw out the foundation.

Vote seems to be pretty strong in favour of a Baileys or similar

 

[Beeline]

Vote seems to be pretty strong in favour of a Baileys or similar

Yes, unless you want to expand, as I do, in which case AS would be an acceptable method.

 

[MJBee]

What ever method you decide to use do not do it too early

Adding all that extra space to be heated in iffy weather or before a decent nectar flow will stop colony development in its tracks.

Been there, got the T shirt and will NOT do it again

 

[Beeline]

What ever method you decide to use do not do it too early

Adding all that extra space to be heated in iffy weather or before a decent nectar flow will stop colony development in its tracks.

Been there, got the T shirt and will NOT do it again

But if the Bailey change was done during a flow wouldn't you simply end up with the 14 x 12 new foundation being drawn and filled with honey (above where they like to put it) and the queen forced to continue laying in the standard national below?

 

[oliver90owner]

and the queen forced to continue laying in the standard national below?

Hopefully not, when there is a Q/E between the boxes.

RAB