Transfer Top Bar hive to National and introduce queen

[RogerIvy]

Hi folks, a bit of advice needed from the more experienced.

I have a top bar hive that I’ve been planning to move to a National.
The challenge is that the hive is also hopelessly queenless. I’m guessing for two weeks or so. The clock is ticking to be sure.

As part of my learning curve I’d really like to see if I can save them.

I have a Q on order, arriving by 1pm tomorrow.

So in my thinking I have two options:
Option 1
At the same time as I introduce the Q cage to the colony I also move them to a national by cutting comb off the bars, turn upside down and use elastic bands to keep in frames. I’ll introduce a capped brood frame from another hive.
The problem is that I don’t know how the attract the bees to the national. They have no known Q to follow.
I might be biting off more than I can chew.
But I was wondering if this increases chances of acceptance.
Option 2
Introduce the Q to the colony in the top bar. Place the cage between two bars where many of the bees are. Wait 48hrs, remove the cap. Wait a day or so to check and hope for the best.
After several days, assuming they have accepted her, move them all to a national and add a capped brood frame from another hive.

Any suggestions?

 

[Ian123]

Why do you think they are queen less…

 

[RogerIvy]

We searched for a queen several times. My daughter helped me check each frame carefully. We also checked through the hive body thoroughly.
We also checked for eggs and young brood - didn’t find anything.

 

[JamezF]

I'm not that familiar with the intricacies of top bar hives, so I'm just guessing...

Could you put a frame of open brood into a national, transfer the combs into frames as described and sit the national on top of the top bar hive in some way that would allow dislodged house bees to move up into the frames (I'm thinking that the open brood might encourage them to move up)?

Once the house bees look like they're happy in the national, lift it off, shift the top bar hive well out of the way and leave the national in its place for the flying bees to return to?

Given that mucking about with the combs has the potential to get a bit tricksy I'd think that introducing the new queen to the national after the frames are moved would be the better bet.

James

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

cutting comb off the bars, turn upside down and use elastic bands to keep in frames.

why turn upside down?!

 

[madasafish]

I do this frequently with transferring mini nuc frames into hives.
Cut top bars so they will fit inside a brood frame..
Drill two holes in topbar of national frame/Insert screws in each.
Position top bar inside national frame topbar under National top bar. Insert screws and tighten (electric screwdriver helps). (you can use cable ties instead of rubber bands - safer as bees can cut through bands - but messier)
Job done.

Ps I can do this with bees on comb as very calm)

 

[RogerIvy]

why turn upside down?!

Just because then I have a nice straight edge resting on the bottom. But TBH I’ve never turned comb upside down and I don’t know if it harms them.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

consider that all cells are built sloping downwards towards the midrib

 

[Murox]

I do this frequently with transferring mini nuc frames into hives.
Cut top bars so they will fit inside a brood frame..
Drill two holes in topbar of national frame/Insert screws in each.
Position top bar inside national frame topbar under National top bar. Insert screws and tighten (electric screwdriver helps). (you can use cable ties instead of rubber bands - safer as bees can cut through bands - but messier)
Job done.

Ps I can do this with bees on comb as very calm)

Thats pretty much how I approach matters if I need to 'merge' national sizes with Layens sizes. I found plaster board/drywall screws the best.

 

[madasafish]

Thats pretty much how I approach matters if I need to 'merge' national sizes with Layens sizes. I found plaster board/drywall screws the best.

Just what I use!