Top Bar National

[Sussex Bees]

I did a search but found nothing, so... has anybody tried and succeeded using top bars in national brood box instead of conventional frames?

It is something I'd like to try, any tips any one?

 

[yeogi75]

hi Ive built a national brood box, and am going to put frames and top bars in to change from frames to bar for my tbh, so i dont have to wreck the frames, it seem to be a shame to destroy frames just to get the bees, will let you know next year how they get on

 

[victor meldrew]

I did a search but found nothing, so... has anybody tried and succeeded using top bars in national brood box instead of conventional frames?

It is something I'd like to try, any tips any one?

I have seen this done with a couple of dividing boards set up to create sloping sides , the effect of this is to reduce any tendency to adhere comb to side wall
VM

 

[Sussex Bees]

From what I've read so far, it seems the main benefit of top bar is that the bees decide on how big or small to build the cells. Would using an empty frame with some sort of blank starter strip at the top have the same effect?

 

[victor meldrew]

From what I've read so far, it seems the main benefit of top bar is that the bees decide on how big or small to build the cells. Would using an empty frame with some sort of blank starter strip at the top have the same effect?

Certainly would
However ,if the intention is to transfer later to a TBH proper then using frames and allowing straight sided comb would defeat the object .
Check the IWF vids , the Germans use empty frames both as varroa control and as a clue when swarming fever is over !( the bees draw worker comb instead of drone comb)
The bees build beautiful straight comb.
VM

 

[ellypatt]

I'm using national frames, some with just starter strips so they can build the cells in the size they want, and some with full sheets of wired foundation, at the moment only two starter strip frames per box until I see how it goes.

 

[Tom Bick]

I did a search but found nothing, so... has anybody tried and succeeded using top bars in national brood box instead of conventional frames?

It is something I'd like to try, any tips any one?

I have a standard national brood box that can take 3 standard frames and then the rest converted with sloping sides as a TBH.

I converted bees from frames to top bars last year and then transferred to a TBH and it worked well.

I am also doing the same but this is an AS into the BB with two standard frames one with the queen and one of stores and the rest top bars.

I suspect you are referring to top bars placed in a standard BB?

The problem with this is it will be a heavy delicate comb and inevitably bits of brace comb to the sides of the BB and I bet a nightmare to inspect.

If you are interested in natural comb as with the TBH then you can just wire the frames as simple as a couple of horizontal wires to help support the comb and then a starter strip and the bees will make beautiful comb as with TBH.

I have moved most of my hives over to this now and in time all my hives. I like it and enjoy it, its different and not without its problems but very rewarding and more interesting.

You can even make the frames but more simpler than the Hoffman frames available.

 

[Sussex Bees]

Wired frames sounds good, I think I'l give that a go.

What do people use as starter strips?

 

[Tom Bick]

One piece of foundation pull off the wire and then cut into 12-20mm and then fit into top bars. The wax does not need to fit the full width ¾ is ok.

Things to watch out for

You will need to keep an eye on the comb so it stays straight. The bees are very good but sometimes it can go a bit out of shape. If this happens don’t worry to push the comb back into shape and even move or rotate frames 180* so that a slightly bent comb sits next to a straight piece.

The combs will not be attached to the full depth of the side bars lets say only half way and the remainder not attached apart from a bit of brace comb. They will also stop short of the bottom bars. They sometimes fill in the gaps when a flow is on but otherwise you will have gaps and they are great for the bees to hide QC’s.

You will have to get used to looking at drones as the bees will be happy to produce approx 20% drone comb sometimes less and sometimes more and as a result you will have to keep a slightly closer watch on Varroa but don’t think that your hive is going to be overrun with Varroa but you will need to be that bit more vigilant. It is easy to cut out the drone comb for drone cull throughout the season along with other practises for varroa.

Supers are a great place to experiment with foundation less frames and even with no wire for cut comb it to me has to be the only way to have cut comb with no recycled wax. In the supers the bees tend to get a bit artistic as the cell sizes and shape can vary somewhat.

This method of beekeeping is not for every one but for me its very interesting it gives a better insight into the bees.

 

[Sussex Bees]

Thanks Tom, I'll give it a go when/if the weather warms up a bit.

 

[yeogi75]

this is what I'm trying a saw cut through center thread foundation through fold and staple seems simple no heating hot wax no mess how it works well see later in year