Too late to hive a 5 frame nuc?

[Torq]

Hi All,
I've a 5 frame nuc that is bursting at the seams with bees. It is full of stores and BIAS. Is it too late to hive them with 2 extra frames and some kingspan to fill in the empty space?
Thanks!

 

[VEG]

They would be best left in the nuc as their numbers will be decreasing and it will be easier for them to keep warm. The weather is starting to cool down as well.

 

[oliver90owner]

Always a pain when they get like that.

I would be investigating the frames from another colony for a swap to alleviate the overcrowding.

As Veg says, getting too late to expect them to do too much and the weather is changing. Maybe even pull a frame of stores temporarily and see what they do. Spare drawn comb is a bonus for tricks like that at this time of the year.

You need to have a flexible plan because if the weather continues in the warm vein, a nuc full of BIAS could make things worse; if it comes particularly cold things may close down very quickly. Six frames well sealed in would be the option if they have to be shifted to the bigger box, not seven. Difference between 20% increase and 40%.

The decision may be swayed with the amount of emerging brood that can be accommodated in the box and the actual amount of capped brood at the present time.

I would suggest if two frames of brood, pull a stores frame; if three frames of brood, shift them to six fames or swap out a frame of brood to a colony that would benefit.

RAB

 

[Hombre]

I had a nuc on Sunday that I upgraded into a 14x12 box.

Original configuration was 4 frames and two frame feeders (12mm doorstop with 3mm ply skin) holding 1 litre of syrup apiece. I moved them into the 14x12 along with two good frames of stores and two drawn frames with a dummy frame at either end. I gave them another two litres of syrup and will again tomorrow.

They had three good frames of brood out of the four, which surprised me.

Time is running out fast though, the mild autumn is running out of steam as the rain and cooler temperatures move in.

I will move one last nuc into new accommodation next week as it is, I believe, strong enough.

 

[WI-USA-BEEK]

I would add a five frame box. I dont know what style frames you use but if its a five deep frame lang nuc, I would add another box of deep frames or mediums or shallows if you have them. If you have extra frame of stores available use those, otherwise put the nuc with stores, and bees on top, add empty to bottom and feed.

A small colony will do better in a double deep nuc than in a single deep box over the winter cause they move up better than sideways.

 

[rae]

A proper hive body packed out with kingspan will offer greater insulation than a nuc - I would put them in a hive, but only give them an extra frame or two - pack the rest out with insulation.

 

[Poly Hive]

It is mad to late october, it is very cool here in the Midlands.

A poly nuc would be the vest vehicle for this colony.

Adding space above at this time in our climate is a nonsense. It frankly will not work, ON AVERAGE, oh yes it will one year and the thinking will be it will always work, err, no.

As already mentioned this nuc despite appearances is actually busy going backwards, and with the current temps the queen's laying will most likely be on hold at least for the mean time.

The old saying is the best packing for bees for winter is more bees. which by the way is true to a point but there is also a point at which it begins to fail by virtue of too many bees! However that is in an experemental situation and has no real bearing on our situation.

a hive packed with king span would be warmer? On two sides yes but not on the other two.

However on saying all of this I tend to think of nucs as being in poly and if they are actually in a thin timber unit then possibly a move to a well insulated full brood box may be the way to go, but please pick a warm afternoon to do it.

I have over looked one unit in a timber brood, and want it in poly, so too am awaiting a blink of sun.

PH

 

[Torq]

They are in a 3/4in white deal nuc box, I have a poly nuc but it's out on loan so it's not an option at present. The queen is one I moved 2 months ago and she's a savage layer, never seems to stop and is still working away. The weather here is just starting to turn, temps are dropping but it can't be that bad as I still have drones in my other 2 hives and both queens are laying.

So.... 6frames and kingspan?

 

[Black Comb]

I did 2 like this last year. One in b/b with kingspan and one in MB polynuc.
Both came through the same strength in Spring.
The polynuc did build up a little faster in Spring.

They were side by side in the apiary.

 

[Poly Hive]

Ok.

Move them to the full body but give them two outside frames, or foundation, plus if you have one a frame feeder as they will use that more than a top feeder in cooler weather. That should get them up to 7 frames, and if they are that keen you could always add more if they are up for it.

Let us know how it pans out. Is she AMM?

PH

 

[Torq]

Thanks for the advice today.

This afternoon I moved them to hive with an inch of kingspan at one end beside the timber, a drawn frame, the 5 frames from the nuc, another drawn frame and 2 inches of kingspan. I gave them a few litres of syrup in a rapid feeder and now it's up to them! They really were packed to the rafters and I hope the space will do them good.

 

[Arfermo]

A proper hive body packed out with kingspan will offer greater insulation than a nuc - I would put them in a hive, but only give them an extra frame or two - pack the rest out with insulation.

You been reading my recent posts because that is what I have recommended twice recently? The only extra I would add is that it might pay to add one more frame, preferably of drawn comb so they have enough space to store syrup etc; also to tape the edges of the Celotex/Kingspan in case bees chew it. Bit indigestible!!!

 

[rae]

You been reading my recent posts because that is what I have recommended twice recently?

Great minds think alike...!

One of my "weak colonies" is being very slow at taking syrup, so I took advantage of the sunny day to check them. They are Q+, have a small patch of brood, but don't seem to be laying down much in the way of syrup/stores. They do have capped stores, but not enough to take them through the winter. On the positive side, they were foraging well today, with pollen coming in by the leg load. They have 75mm of celotex in each end (so 6 frames) the roof has 25 mm and the recesses in the 14x12 body also have 25mm. Can't do much more for them than that! I think I will stop syrup pretty soon, and switch to fondant in a take away container. They're going to need proper nursing to get though winter.

 

[Arfermo]

Great minds think alike...!

One of my "weak colonies" is being very slow at taking syrup, so I took advantage of the sunny day to check them. They are Q+, have a small patch of brood, but don't seem to be laying down much in the way of syrup/stores. They do have capped stores, but not enough to take them through the winter. On the positive side, they were foraging well today, with pollen coming in by the leg load. They have 75mm of celotex in each end (so 6 frames) the roof has 25 mm and the recesses in the 14x12 body also have 25mm. Can't do much more for them than that! I think I will stop syrup pretty soon, and switch to fondant in a take away container. They're going to need proper nursing to get though winter.

Suggest you lay in some fondant. If they are short of stores now, that will be the only alternative and whereas I normally give them fondant around Xmas along with oxalic treatment, you may need to start earlier. Needs watching and if they look dozy give them some. If they don't need it they won't use it.