To expand brood box or not?

[nickyjay]

I have just installed a new package of bees. They have been in almost a week and have already drawn comb on half the frames (11). The question is will the 12 x 8 national brood box be enough space for them to grow as a colony and for over wintering this year or do I add a super (so it's brood and half) as soon as they have finished drawing the current brood frames?

 

[susbees]

As soon as there is brood (not bees) on six or so frames you can add a super. Brood rearing gradually declines from the end of June.

 

[Midland Beek]

It is up to you how you choose to operate your hives: single brood, brood and a half, or double brood. There is still bramble, Himalayan balsam, Japanese knotweed and lime to come, so do not underestimate the strength and size that your colony may reach ... weather permitting.

 

[oliver90owner]

The question is will the 12 x 8 national brood box be enough space

Now that s a funny sort of size. Are we to understand you really mean a standard deep brood?

RAB

 

[nelletap]

I am still very new - but I wonder whether sometimes having too much space in the brood box (or brood area when there is more than one box) then causes there to be more growth (because there is more room) so in turn more stores are needed for winter? For new beekeepers it also means more to deal with for inspections - as far as space and bees is concerned. Perhaps I am just a bit feeble but I am not sure whether I did the right thing when I added a super to effectively have a brood and a half urged by my mentor. Though I can see why he suggested it and was thrilled when I saw my bees come through that difficult winter.
Tricia

 

[susbees]

Certainly if bees are fed over enthusiastically the queen will be short of space to lay and that will limit colony size BUT that can also be a trigger to start swarm preparations. A queen can be limited in her egg-laying in a nuc but you won't get honey this way.

If you want to keep bees in a single box, native-type bees will do just that. Alternatively Italian-type colonies breed for England and can all but burst out of two boxes...and starve if the summer is wet and cold.

 

[Finman]

As soon as there is brood (not bees) on six or so frames you can add a super. Brood rearing gradually declines from the end of June.

no way!

Colony has just founded. Now it makes so many brood frames as it can keep warm.
Since now number of bees decline, and after 4 weeks the colony start to grow.

If you add too much space, it is hard to bees keep the hive warm.
It is not able to forage surplus honey and it need not super.

If you have a nuc, it expands all the time.

And close the mesh floor.

 

[Finman]

I am still very new - but I wonder whether sometimes having too much space in the brood box (or brood area when there is more than one box) then causes there to be more growth (because there is more room) so in turn more stores are needed for winter? For new beekeepers it also means more to deal with for inspections - as far as space and bees is concerned. Perhaps I am just a bit feeble but I am not sure whether I did the right thing when I added a super to effectively have a brood and a half urged by my mentor. Though I can see why he suggested it and was thrilled when I saw my bees come through that difficult winter.
Tricia

honeybee is a wild animal. You can not command it to do that and that.

You need to give so much brood and honey space as they need. If they are not satisfied, they swarm or stop foraging.

When it is May, it it is not time to think next winter. main problems in summer is to prevent swarming and then get honey as much as possible.

Inspections too much and 2 hives? that is beekeeping.

In August you should start to think how to prepare the colony for winter. At least in September.

If you keep hives too tight, they swarm twice and then you need not inspect or take honey from hives.

 

[susbees]

no way!

Colony has just founded. Now it makes so many brood frames as it can keep warm.
Since now number of bees decline, and after 4 weeks the colony start to grow.

If you add too much space, it is hard to bees keep the hive warm.
It is not able to forage surplus honey and it need not super.

If you have a nuc, it expands all the time.

And close the mesh floor.

OK, you are right in a way, but you misinterpret my post. What it should say so as not to be ambiguous is IF (in place of "as soon as" ...meaning consider at this point) the new colony were to make a brood nest of EIGHT (my error, sorry) frames and have the other frames full of stores then IF you're in an area of good summer flow you might need a super this year. Or not.

 

[nickyjay]

RAB, yes, standard deep brood. Meant to write 14x8.
These are of Italian origin as far as I can tell although until the actual offspring of this queen appear, it's unknown really.
Not worried about extra weight or inspecting two boxes, more interested in understanding the required brood size given this point in the year. Finman is right in that the colony will shrink before it grows due to the fact there will be no new offspring for 21 days or so.

 

[susbees]

RAB, yes, standard deep brood. Meant to write 14x8.

Seems to be a day for getting numbers mixed up

Finman is right in that the colony will shrink before it grows due to the fact there will be no new offspring for 21 days or so.

True, but it holds that you need to monitor the size of the brood nest (remembering that the queen backfills it so to speak as bees hatch)

 

[nickyjay]

I guess I will just have to play it by ear. They are due their first full inspection on Saturday so I can gauge how much brood is there then. They are assigning more and more foragers each day judging by the amount of orientation flights that take place and the pollen is coming in thick and fast. Very excited to see how the queen has been doing now she's out of her cage!

 

[Finman]

.
It is a secret, how big the packge is. I guess that it is 3 pounds and that covers/occupye . Actually it is is an artificial swarm. Nuc has brood with it , and how many.


As you see, weather is not marvellous in UK. Small colony will not stand what ever. Its build up is poor if the colony has too much space and too much ventilation.

When I started beekeeping, I bought plenty of swarms. I found out that 8 pound swarm was the best. It build up fast and it brought honey 40kg in one month. It payed back the price at once.
After 4 weeks it had 3 boxes bees.

One box swarm has difficulties to handle honey. It is able to bring honey but it needs brood space than honey space. - only way is to take honey frames off and give new combs or foundations.

But before the new bees emerge, the colony has lost half of its bees. Brood makes heat as much as a resting bee.
The colony cannot make much because bees are not enough, they are old. Just waiting new bees.


Too few space, good flow -- swarming...bees escape....
Too much space -- poor build up

3 pound swarm - - slow build up , nervour beekeeper, stupid advices
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