Thinking ahead as a newbeek!

[louiseww]

I know it is only January but I am wondering when I will need to put on the queen excluder and a super. Is there a general rule of thumb about 'when the temperature reaches ??' or will it be when there is lots of foraging going on with the spring flowers?
Syrup feed - this is the first winter for my nuc and swarm - they seem to be doing okay (but what do I know????) When can they cope with syrup? (I have already been regularly feeding fondant!)
One hive very active for about an hour when the sun came out today - the other one which is the swarm and I think weaker didn't come out, but I know they are okay as I tapped the hive and heard them protest!
Louise

 

[Black Comb]

OK prepare for lots of different opinions.

I was taught that when the bees cover 6 frames in the brood box you put on a super. This was using nationals as an example. Note bees covering 6 frames does not mean the same as 6 frames of brood.

 

[Poly Hive]

And here is the first of the disagreements.

I was taught, and teach, not to super before 8 frames of brood, and even at that strength I have left it another week, as if the bees are struggling to cover the brood then they really don't need another storey to cope with.

I use that rule of thumb for both Nats and Langs.

PH

 

[MuswellMetro]

And here is the first of the disagreements.

I was taught, and teach, not to super before 8 frames of brood, and even at that strength I have left it another week, as if the bees are struggling to cover the brood then they really don't need another storey to cope with.

I use that rule of thumb for both Nats and Langs.

PH

about the same as PH, but watch out for OSR flowering early

louiseWW

how many supers have you,i always advise min 4, one filling nectar, one reducing nectar, one capping honey and a spare (or extracting) but saying that, i saw in osr out apiary a hive last year with 8

 

[CliffDale]

how many supers have you,i always advise min 4, one filling nectar, one reducing nectar, one capping honey and a spare (or extracting) but saying that, i saw in osr out apiary a hive last year with 8[/QUOTE]

I'm not clear what you are saying here?

I agree with 8 or 9 frames then super up. Are you saying that you should add three supers all at the same time?

 

[Poly Hive]

Just because OSR is flowering does not mean your hives need supering.

Super when the bees need it or set them back.

Mind you I have supered on 6 but not often, and done it because the colony was strong enough, but that is a fine judgement, and it does take experience to carry it off.

PH

 

[MuswellMetro]

I'm not clear what you are saying here?

I agree with 8 or 9 frames then super up. Are you saying that you should add three supers all at the same time?

NO


a lot of beginners just have two supers, ie as it comes out of the box, my advicse to beginers is to buy at least 4 supers

use them as needed whether it is one, two, three or four as they fill them up, if you need four on, one super will capped, so you can remove that and extract, and so you have a spare

 

[Poly Hive]

Remember that you need a super to clear down to when you remove full supers.

In general if you run with three supers per colony then you will on average have enough allowing for the ones that need three and the ones that need but two or even one.

However if you just run two, then you WILL need four x 2 =8!

PH

 

[Vergilius]

Louise,

Last year spring (and the oil seed rape) arrived late, therefore the bees were still very much in "winter mode" at the start of april... But, hopefully, this spring will come sooner and, if so, you may be supering by mid-april.

Are you near any OSR??? If not then supering will be later...


Ben P

 

[Skyhook]

The danger of doing it too early is that it could create a cold space above the bees when they are trying to build up, especially if we get a cold snap. Keep an eye on them, and if in doubt, post again closer to the time. People can then offer more specific advice.

 

[louiseww]

Hi Ben
I see you too are in East Sussex. We are near the downs and the Royal golf course so all the farmland is pasture and no OSR - this can only be found on the A27 towards Lewes so I think that may be too far for my bees. However in 'The buzz about bees' a fantastic book, this German scientist suggests that they can fly up to six miles, which is new to me!
Thanks
Louise

 

[louiseww]

Thanks everyone, but no answer about the syrup!
L

 

[MuswellMetro]

Thanks everyone, but no answer about the syrup!
L

I use fondant until late March, but i know of two bee-keepers who only use 1:1 sugar syrup

they both only feed syrup from mid January and use a 1lb jar with feeder lid of 1:1 syrup refreshed each week to stop mould

One of them has over 50 hives and i think it is cost and simplicity that drives the use of sugar syrup not any theory His bees don't seem to mind and he gets lots of honey and supplies the local association with Bees

Me well i feed in late March 0.8:1 syrup( 1lb to pint) but only on the shook swarm and to the hive i have put the donated brood frames in from the shook swarm

Hope that help

 

[Rosti]

Syrup feed - this is the first winter for my nuc and swarm - they seem to be doing okay (but what do I know????) When can they cope with syrup? (I have already been regularly feeding fondant!)

When to move to syrup depends on ambient temperature in your part of the UK and your guess (good luck with that) on what the temperatures are going to do late March early April.

Subject to weather I will be putting pollen patties onto hives 2/3 week March. I will make sure they have a close water supply (chicken drinker) from beginning of March and I'll be watching their activity. As soon as I see flying for forage and sustained pollen coming back - usually willow, gorse, yew and elm for us in my part of N Yorks (I dont count on crocus, snowdrop and hazel / alder round here too much); then I'll put on my first 1:1 spring syrup feed. I dont do it sooner to avoid pushing them too fast, too quick. So syrup could go on as early as 3rd week march or as late as first week April, it must stop before the first super - or you wont be having proper honey laid down. If forrage is looking good and I can see stores laying down they wont get any syrup at all

I have very good early forage so I would argue that your pollen patties are of more worth than an early syrup feed (especialy if made up with some of last years honey - 3:1 syrup / fondant if you dont have any). Geography and local forage plays a big part in what will be right for you.

 

[oliver90owner]

I will be doing as Polyhive advocates - using frame feeders. I have tried different ways but the frame feeder is there, at the nest temperature and quite convenient.

As Rosti implies, if there is not enough stored protein to get them through to a good pollen 'flow', carbohydrate will only prevent the bees starving. When you start rather depends on how strong you want them for the first main flow. If too early you could be feeding a lot of sugar just to keep a very large colony from starving.

I would ideally want a lot of foragers (3week-old bees) by the start of the OSR. The alternative, and I was late last year, is that a lot of the foraged nectar will be consumed by an expanding colony (lots of open brood) and that nectar will be collected by a weaker foraging force. A fine line between extra feed and being a bit late for the maximum crop. What happens then? Flow diminishes, still loads of capped brood to emerge and use the hard earned stores, so they are likely pushed into swarm mode.

I will not be feeding all my colonies early, just some. There are other considerations too, like brooding space - no point feeding them extra to boost the foragers if the laying space is taken up (that's 3 weeks for every egg she lays).

As a new beek, I would be taking a conservative approach and letting the bees go mostly at their own rate, simply making sure they have enough carbohydrate and protein so they do not get restricted once they start.

Regards, RAB