The Dutch "aalster" beekeeping method

[ugcheleuce]

So let us say forty hives and nucs in the apairy, and on the second move of the nucs, all or most of the foragers would return to the nearest couple of end hives, that does not seem like sense to try and pack all those foragers from forty nucs into a couple of end hives, or even from twenty.

That is true. Obviously the large hives closest to the nuc positions will benefit most, when the nucs are moved. It would make more sense (if your line of hives is very long) if your first nuc movement treats the line as a series of lines.

Do you think that will accomplish what the method is after? Every how many hives do you think should one stack the nucs in order to ensure that most nuc foragers flying back to an empty spot will beg in to the large hives instead of discovering the nuc's new position after some trial and error?

 

[ugcheleuce]

.Is heather only crop what you are trying?

No, for me, heather is an after-thought -- something you can try to get if the summer was wet enough and the autumn is warm enough to make a good heather harvest more likely (heather stops producing nectar below 10C).

Heather honey is more sought after in these parts, however -- at local beekeeping shows, the heather honey flies off the shelves much quicker than e.g. fruit honey. I would not mind if this method can be used to ensure a greater heather harvest.

Keep in mind that I've only done beekeeping for about 3-4 years, so I'm still in the "learning about bees" stage.

 

[Hivemaker.]

Do you also have shrub heather (i.e. Calluna) in the UK? Dutch beekeepers don't really focus on bell heather for their heather honey.

Yes, it is the main heather honey crop, starts to flower anytime from mid July, and is in flower until early October, although the best of it is usually during August, all my bees can reach it in this area, as we have lots of heather moorland all around here.
Also lots of it in Scotland, Wales, etc.

 

[Goran]

If we ignore the word "May" for a moment, and simply say that the method merges nucs and large hives shortly before the first flow, would you still say "it would be too late to merge"? If so, why would you say that?



If you were to merge in late summer/autumn, when would you make the nucs? Or would that mean that your method runs on a two-year cycle (in year 1 the nuc is made, in year 2 the nuc is merged with the large hive)?



That is true, and I suppose it depends on what is meant by "nuc". The original series of articles did not use the word "nuc" or in fact any word that we currently use in beekeeping here. The author speaks of a "little English hive", which was apparently a kind of nuc that was used specifically for exporting bees from the Netherlands to England. From the drawings and photos I figured it must be a thin-walled 5- or 6-frame hive, so I used the word "nuc" as a generic term.

The method does not propose merging production colonies with each othe, but merging small hives (with 2-year old queens) with large hives (with 1-year old queens). If all your hives are large hives by the time you go to the forage, then you should not complain

On the other hand, the method is based on the idea that if a hive has lots of brood in it, then more of the bees will remain inside the hive to take care of the brood, en fewer bees will be available to forage, which means that less honey will be harvested. Do you agree with that idea?

More added brood before my main forage would be too much. For my main forage considered "right" measure 6-8 frames of sealed brood 20 days before forage start. Normal colony aquire such by itself. On the contrary many beeks, are slowing build up by taking 1-2 frames of brood with bees per colony and avoiding swarming before/in main forage - making a nucs as default. Still getting not too tremendous hit on overall strength of main colony.
Adding more brood in build up will lead to swarming at my place. Also the "harmony" would be disrupted. That why planned merging better in late summer, autumn at my place.
Next time for making nucs is after main forage for me, when colonies are still "thunders". Then we add one frame of brood more per nuc.

Overwintering nucs, the right measure for my place are shown 7 frames Lang deep nucs. These are meant for further developing into production colonies in spring.
Some do overwinter mnucs as queen bank for spring or sell.

I work with lang deep ( 3 boxes full config in main forage, some less developed remain with one honey super-2 boxes).

 

[ugcheleuce]

6. b) and c) Will ... result in the production of lower quality emergency queens. Then whilst waiting for the virgins to mate the majority of your bees will be largely idle because you have essentially used the main hive as a mating hive.

Well, whether emergency queens are worse than e.g. supersedure queens or swarm queens is an ongoing discussion in beekeeping circles. It is my impression that the current thought is that emergency queens are not worse per se.

I think it is accepted, however, that emergency queens are of optimal quality if they are brought up in a strong colony with lots of resources inside the hive. With this in mind, it would make sense to let the large hive make the emergency cells as opposed to letting the nuc make the emergency cells.

Are you sure hives are "idle" while they wait for the new queen to be born and get mated?

 

[ugcheleuce]

...

Oh, I only just noticed that you're from Croatia, not the UK.

 

[Finman]

.
Emergency queens are poor quality. Most of beekeepers can be what ever opinion, but they are poor size. They have been grown from 3 days old larva and fed 2 days less than good queens. When normal queen is fed 5 days, 2 days off from that is really much.

It is not big job when you change larvae in swarm queen cells, and put there larvae from best hives. Then you get best quality queens. Or, buy ready laying queens for nucs. You win one brood cycle . It is about 4 weeks.

 

[oliver90owner]

letting the nuc make the emergency cells.

I, for one, and any other sensible beek would not countenance arranging for emergency queens to be produced in any nucleus colony and so does not warrant the thread space, even for discussion.

This method seems, to me, to have been put together to try to 'educate' the unthinking into following the process blindly. As said earlier, ideas for thinkers and nothing more. It may have some attraction as a theme, to some, but following it blindly is likely to lead to operational problems, several of which have already been pointed out.

Shirley, the fact that it seems to have been confined to the archives for umpteen years indicates its fundamental lack of usefulness. Anyone known to currently follow this method closely? That should tell you, and anyone reading this thread, something - mostly that there are as good, or better, ways to 'farm' bee colonies.

 

[ugcheleuce]

Shirley, the fact that it seems to have been confined to the archives for umpteen years indicates its fundamental lack of usefulness. Anyone known to currently follow this method closely?

And don't call me Surely

I'm 99% confident that all current beekeeping courses in the Netherlands (for standard box hives) teach some or other variant of the Aalst method. It is the de facto method, updated for local and modern conditions of course.

The two aspects of the 1952 description that caught my eye, however (overwintering nucs specifically for merging, and using nucs as forager factories during flow), are not commonly included in any modern description of the Aalst method.

Like I said in the first post, "I have found that different beekeepers understand the term "Aalst method" to refer to a range of different things, some of which are only marginally related to the original description of the Aalst method, published in 1952." To put it differently: everybody thinks that they're using the Aalst method, but they're certainly not using the originally described method.

I'm not sure what queens cost in the UK, but here a good quality Buckfast can be had for EUR 5 (unmated) or EUR 20 (mated), so using emergency queens is really only for folks who experiment, who aren't well organised, or who use races of bees less prone to problems at F3 and F4 (e.g. Carnica).

Thanks for your helpful input, by the way.

 

[Finman]

.
What ever, but I do not touch even with stick to any 60 y old methods.
In Finland we have not named methods. We just do operations: Build up, swarm control, extracting, winter feeding. No names included

 

[ugcheleuce]

.In Finland we have not named methods. We just do operations: Build up, swarm control, extracting, winter feeding. No names included.

Do regions not have names in Finland? If beekeepers in Vaasa hear that beekeepers in Askolaa practice a particular method, will they not tell their colleagues "we are trying out the Askolaa method"?

 

[Finman]

Do regions not have names in Finland? If beekeepers in Vaasa hear that beekeepers in Askolaa practice a particular method, will they not tell their colleagues "we are trying out the Askolaa method"?

We have not such things

"Trying" makes no sense. But beekeepers have many habits, which have no sense.

But we have high quality national education system, which delivers new methods and confirms good ones.
.