The best laid plans........

[thorn]

And some else got hit by a car while crossing the road, so it's been decided that no-one should ever try crossing a road again.

There seem to be a lot of health and safety inspectors posting on this forum, trying to justify their existence.

I'm sorry about the fellow who suffered the adverse reaction, but let's keep a sense of proportion.

 

[richardbees]

thorn

Couldn't disagree with you more!

Andy has done exactly the right thing by removing the hives - without arguing the toss!

 

[Karol]

Likewise Andy, very sorry to hear what happened but you should be commended for taking appropriate and responsible measures.

<snip>

However bees aren't the only potentially harmful creatures and we adjust our lives to the presence of wasps, hornets and even to adders. Individual responsibility plays a part here too and I don't see that the beekeeper has to take ALL the responsibility for every individual within flying distance of their hives.

<snip>

But the degree of responsibility must be relative to the risk that is created. Siting a hive on an allotment where members of the public can reasonably be expected to undertake activities which bees may find threatening within the 'territorial' vicinity (as opposed to foraging distance) of their hive does place the onus of responsibility on the bee keeper.

 

[Andy Duff]

Thanks for the support people, there is good news. The guy who got stung will be back on the allotments in the next few days, with an epipen (or2?) he is one of the nicest guys you could ever meet and is very upset that the bees had to go, which says a lot about him.

There is more good news, I called in on one of my elderly neighbours who I give surplus tomatoes, cucumbers, the odd jar of honey to etc. and I told her what had happened, her daughter and son in law were sat in the room listening, it turns out that they have a farm about a mile away from the allotments, no public footpaths through it, no riding stables close and it is quite secluded so no security problem. We will check it out and hopefully we will be beekeeping next year.

To be honest, just seeing our association member back on site, fit and well and working on his plot will be enough for me at the moment.

cheers. Andy

 

[simonrp]

That's good news Andy.
A well timed visit, result!

 

[tonybloke]

good news Andy!

 

[Headnavigator]

Pleased that it looks as though there's a good outcome for all, Andy.

 

[tkwinston4]

Someone that allergic to bees should probably stay away from flowers now though.
(

Really???????

 

[Poly Hive]

Excellent outcome all round and well done Andy for taking the sensible route out of a potentially very awkward situation.

PH

 

[Andy Duff]

Best news, he was back on the allotments today, still not allowed to drive due to the medication he is on, and I was shocked when he showed me the number of different medications he has to take and the doseage!!!

More good news, speaking to members of our association, who are aware of the situation, they have pretty much all said that they miss having the bees on the allotments but we did the right thing and they were impressed with how quickly the bees were removed.

 

[Teemore]

Andy, A good result. People will remember that you acted responsibly and that will always stand you in good stead in the future. It may even produce more offers of apiary sites down the line as people think about/remember that you had to move bees off the allotments.

 

[user 6228]

There's an Ivy hedge (maintained by another house holder) on a corner 100m away across the road with a tarmac footpath with people walking within 150mm of it This time of year there are a lot of bees and lot of wasps on it. Some of them at some time almost certainly ours.

In my book, If some one gets stung by an insect feeding on the ivy, its between them the Ivy hedge owner.

 

[Der Alte Fritz]

Regardless of the gentleman who got stung, the proximity of the Riding School horses would have meant the apiary had to move anyway. You cannot have bees close to horses under any circumstances and a Riding School where children are common would be even worse.

It was the right decision to move and I am sure that you will be very happy in your new apiary.

 

[Chris Luck]

In my book, If some one gets stung by an insect feeding on the ivy, its between them the Ivy hedge owner.

Feeding on Ivy at the side of a public road yesterday near me.

Colletes hederae, aka Ivy Bee.
Asian Hornets
European Hornets.
4 or 5 other social wasp species.
Several solitary wasp species.
Honey bees.

Now I can't see how any individual can be held responsible for anyone that should be stung however unlikely that is - tell me this is all a joke.

Note. All the "wasps" including the Asian Hornets were taking nectar and are not interested in my hives.

Chris

 

[drstitson]

The point is not admitting blame on part of your bees.

BUT rather

once you know that someone, with equal right to access facilities ie allotment or neighbouring garden, has a potentially life threatening allergy then the only sensible thing is to remove excess risk. not necessarily for fear of being sued BUT simply out of common sense and respect for fellow humans.

mr X may be at finite risk of dying off of a bee at any time during his daily activities
BUT
keeping bees 20ft from him will significantly increase that risk.

refusing to respond to requests from that person or allotment committee would i presume then be judged as a public nuisance.

 

[user 6228]

...Now I can't see how any individual can be held responsible for anyone that should be stung however unlikely that is - tell me this is all a joke...

We wont be selling honey from end of the drive. (in sight of the hedge)

 

[Chris Luck]

In the instance quoted the distance from Derek was 100 metres, it's more the fact that anyone should even consider who is responsible for insects feeding on a hedgerow or what ever.

Of course here in France we have legal distances for keeping bees and a litigation system that is only for celebrities, (and Royals).

Personally I would never consider putting hives on an allotment or any other more or less public site where I didn't have some control over access because bees do sting and people can be very stupid at times.

Chris

 

[thorn]

The point is not admitting blame on part of your bees.

BUT rather

once you know that someone, with equal right to access facilities ie allotment or neighbouring garden, has a potentially life threatening allergy then the only sensible thing is to remove excess risk. not necessarily for fear of being sued BUT simply out of common sense and respect for fellow humans.

mr X may be at finite risk of dying off of a bee at any time during his daily activities
BUT
keeping bees 20ft from him will significantly increase that risk.

refusing to respond to requests from that person or allotment committee would i presume then be judged as a public nuisance.

but to use this sort of unfortunate incident as an argument against ever keeping bees in a garden is H&S taken to extremes. Allotments are a different matter. There are too many people around and the beek is too far from the action if something does go wrong.

As for horses, they and bees don't get on. The horse owner and the beekeeper should talk. It's no more reasonable for someone to decide to set up a stable next to an established apiary than for a beekeeper to move his bees next to some stables. And it's the horses (and their riders) that are at the greater risk.

A complaint about public nuisance is always a possibility, but the council should only act on it if the complaint is from someone who lives or works very near to the hives. If it were from someone who lives, say, 50 metres away, and the council made an order, it would not be hard to get it overturned.

 

[Chris Luck]

As for horses, they and bees don't get on. The horse owner and the beekeeper should talk. It's no more reasonable for someone to decide to set up a stable next to an established apiary than for a beekeeper to move his bees next to some stables. And it's the horses (and their riders) that are at the greater risk.

I'm beginning to think there is something strange in France. I know people with horses and hives in close proximity, like next to them plus sheep and pigs and there are never any problems at all.

If it were from someone who lives, say, 50 metres away, and the council made an order, it would not be hard to get it overturned.

Well, I'm pleased to hear that at any rate, there are still some grounds for hope then.

Chris

 

[user 6228]

...And it's the horses (and their riders) that are at the greater risk.

....

horses and risk ... 20 times more dangerous than a motorcycle (hours per serious injury) Horse is in the majority the cause (source a research paper done for a horse riding assoc).
Horses have no MOT ,or the riders a license or even a legal requirement for insurance...

bee keeping at home risky? it could be worse it could be a horse