temperature your bees cluster

[user 6228]

I'm interested of the bee keepers impression of what temperature bees cluster and if you get this from you observations or what you have read.
if you think you want to answer differently please post or PM me.

 

[user 6228]

Please vote on the temperature AND the insulated AND where you have been told

 

[REDWOOD]

I don't have clear crown boards or a temperature gauge in my hive so really only observations outside the hive.

Darker bees are a lot different from lighter bees when it comes to temperature, when dark bees are out foraging in drizzle lighter bees won't and in the spring the darker bees will be out foraging well before the lighter bees. Again bees without insulation are the quickest to build up in the spring.
As a rule of thumb I would say that bees don't forage below 12 so probably cluster around this temperature

 

[Erichalfbee]

Please vote on the temperature AND the insulated AND where you have been told

Derrrrrr

I have read 12˚
However I often see bees out for a poo at 10˚ so maybe it's 9˚

 

[Marton]

Mine flying as if it were summer over this weekend at 9C.

Don't think it was just cleansing as they were on the ivy in the garden and also bringing in pollen.

 

[itma]

Derek, not sure what you are asking, as so few will be measuring temperatures INSIDE the hive.


My understanding is that "the books" (Winston, etc) talk about clustering beginning at about 18C. But that is measured INSIDE the hive (outside the cluster), even if some authors do strangely attach the word "ambient" to this measurement.
The external temperature when the interior gets down to 18 is going to depend on insulation, colony size, hive size and the rate of change of external temperature, as well as other things like the solar gain of the hives that day.

 

[user 6228]

Derek, not sure what you are asking, as so few will be measuring temperatures INSIDE the hive.


My understanding is that "the books" (Winston, etc) talk about clustering beginning at about 18C. But that is measured INSIDE the hive (outside the cluster), even if some authors do strangely attach the word "ambient" to this measurement.
The external temperature when the interior gets down to 18 is going to depend on insulation, colony size, hive size and the rate of change of external temperature, as well as other things like the solar gain of the hives that day.

I'm asking about what beekeepers think rather than what is...
its about understanding what beekeepers understand, and not collecting data on bee colonies.

My research has moved on and the first part of that, is finding out what is the "accepted wisdom" on clustering. This will then be compared to the reality (which includes the factors you mention above) , if i ever get that far

 

[Karsal]

I'm asking about what beekeepers think rather than what is...
its about understanding what beekeepers understand, and not collecting data on bee colonies.

My research has moved on and the first part of that, is finding out what is the "accepted wisdom" on clustering. This will then be compared to the reality (which includes the factors you mention above) , if i ever get that far

It's been 9 degrees here recently most days and drizzely rain. Bees are out foraging and many are returning laden with pollen. My bees are dark mongrel bees. All my hives are P!£$%s poly hives and have a 3inch piece of kingspan on top of the crown board inside a super.

 

[Itchy]

You have to chill bees to make them cluster so you can drizzle acid on them

 

[itma]

…
its about understanding what beekeepers understand, and not collecting data on bee colonies.
…

Oh … Kaaaay.

 

[Martin Bee]

I'm interested of the bee keepers impression of what temperature bees cluster and if you get this from you observations or what you have read.
if you think you want to answer differently please post or PM me.

I’m a newbie as this is the start of my second winter. I have only one dark coloured colony in a long TBH . This is home made from scrap and as the wood is not very thick I have insulated with 50mm on top of the bars and on both sides. As I am 1000ft. up on the north side of a Welsh hill the temperature here is 2C lower than in the valley and normally 4C lower than forecast sea level temperature. Because of this I have installed a cheap digital thermometer (From ebay £1.98 from Hong Kong) inside the hive just under the top bars which gives me some idea of the cluster temperature. The outside temperature today and for the last few days has been 9C or lower and inside temperature has been between 19C and 21C. The bees are still moving about and if there is any sign of sunshine they are off and foraging. So I don’t know when they will settle down and cluster for the winter.

 

[Tom Bick]

For most people Martin it will simply be a guess and perhaps the survey could have had that as another tick box. Some people will have plastic crown boards and are able to lift off the roof but even then there is probably variations to clustering as in very tight and not so.

 

[Jed D]

I'm glad you asked the question , cuz i was wondering the very same thing.
From my point of view we seem to be having a very long autumn.
And i've been wondering how this will effect their stores ,as our bees are still flying end of october early november. and although our hedgerows are riddled with ivy ,it has mostly finished.

We did get a good frost last week and i'm hoping this was the start of winter.
As for clustering ,it's only a guess but it's gotta be single figures, before they actually form a cluster , so 9 degrees and downwards.

p.s. lots of insulation and observations / guess.....
I just had a look at the vote results and most of us seem to be thinking along the same lines.

 

[Bosleeu]

All my hives except one are polystyrene - a mixture of Nat and Langstroth, including nucs. All have plastic covers with no insulation apart from the polystyrene the roofs are made of. Temp outside was 9 C today with no foraging, but no clustering at all as yet. In fact in one of my nucs the bees were all over empty eke on top and the thermometer on top of the bars said it was 20C. I plan to monitor that all winter

My only wooden hive is showing signs of a loose cluster starting to form over the last day or two. Bees only seen on the top bars in a football sized circle in the centre. It has a clear coverboard only under a normal roof. I plan to add some Kingspan insulation when I can get hold of it and it will be interesting to see if that makes a difference to the cluster size.

All the hives are very heavy with food still even though there are an awfull lot of bees in them.

Looks like the main thing is inside temperature rather than outside temperature that determines when they cluster.

 

[madasafish]

We normally have frost by 1st October and even then bees will fly on warm days. No frosts at all this year. I assume no clustering then - my langs certainly have none. Can't see into TBHs.

My reply is a guess based on literature.. No way to read internal temperatures..

I do know in extreme cold (-18C) I have seen frozen condensate icicles on the lower board of a TBH... so I assume clustering must be at 10-18C roughly. Much below that and the condensate would not flow on cold days..

 

[Dishmop]

Cluster.....
Is the assumption that not flying means they are clustered?

My bees will fly if its down to 8deg but only if its a bright day.

At the moment its damp and 10 deg. One or two out and about.

To see then clustered you would probably need a thermal imaging camera.
As its gets colder they move further away from the hive walls.
My obs hive is not a true indication of what happens in an ordinary hive, but if there is a strong cold wind blowing they will move upwards and away from the entrance tube.

 

[Little John]

Cluster.....
Is the assumption that not flying means they are clustered?

My bees will fly if its down to 8deg but only if its a bright day.

At the moment its damp and 10 deg. One or two out and about.

Pretty-much the same here - it's not just temperature which stimulates bees to fly, but sunshine as well (even if hives are in the shade - so solar temperature gain isn't necessarily a factor).

But - clustering ? - dunno. Not sure that I'm really that bothered - they'll cluster as tightly as they need to, whenever they need to. Why would I want to know this ?

LJ

 

[Little John]

There's a video: [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5a0_JjRSOnU[/ame]
showing 1000 + hives being over-wintered in a shed at 6 degrees - dunno if that's the kind of info being looked for ...

 

[user 6228]

There's a video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5a0_JjRSOnU
showing 1000 + hives being over-wintered in a shed at 6 degrees - dunno if that's the kind of info being looked for ...

No I 'm asking about your impressions of when clustering occurs and where you got the info from. not what Canadians do, I 've looked that up already in some detail.

 

[Little John]

No I 'm asking about your impressions of when clustering occurs and where you got the info from. not what Canadians do, I 've looked that up already in some detail.

But there's no box to tick for 'don't know, don't much care', or 'none of the above' or similar ...

Why on earth do you want to know what people's impressions are - as opposed to hard facts ? Or is that a secret for now ? Methinks this be psychology

LJ