Swarming.... some thoughts.

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I have given it thought in the past. I'll probably join if I get around to it.

I have plenty of wood knocking about so I'll fix up some nuc boxes no probs. Been building a pond in the apiary today. It's suprising what knock on effects beekeeping has had, seems I've become an amature gardner by default :rofl:
 
I could do with a check list of what equipment I must have for this Spring. I'm buying two hives on Tuesday. I'm assuming I will have nuc boxes when I buy my nucs. Frames come with the hives. I have my smoker and hive tool. What else should I definately have before my nucs are ready? ...veil...forgot about the veil, that would have been embarrassing

These spring to mind - optionally an Open Mesh Floor and stand, Queen Excluder, crown Board, some means of clearing supers (cheapest and easiest being Porter escapes), foundation, gloves, sugar.

Thats not including honey production stuff which you'll need to get organised for the end of the OSR flow assuming you have one.

And spares of everything.

Many of these may already come with the hives, but wise to check.
 
I suspect you may be in error in assuming you will get a nuc box with your nuc.[/url]

PH

yep, it is either return the Nuc to vendor of the Bees or not worth keeping

Saw some beginners Nuc last year made out a tesco cardboard boxes cut and duck taped to shape and with a bit of expanded poly glued in for the frame shoulders, AND the vendor wanted them back

but saying that, they worked quite well and the duck tape made them waterproof
 
more thoughts on swarming (and varroa control)

Total Plagerism - with thanks to Peter from Kemble Bee Supplies....I was very interested to read this piece on swarming, and how it can impact on Varroa control too

Varroa Control
November 9, 2010 by Peter

Controlling varroa need not mean using the chemicals you would rather not be pumping into your hives or all over your bees. We know that fluvalinate and flumethrin are mostly no longer effective. They also have the potential to build up in the wax, especially if you do not change the combs as often as you should. We have found that oxalic and formic acids are either nasty to use or reduce the life of queens. At Kemble Bees we have developed a way of keeping varroa down to levels which are not economically damaging whilst controlling swarming and enforcing comb renewal. It can also be used as a way of requeening coupled with nuc production.

"GIVE US A BREAK, said the bees"

Consider the hive as a varroa incubator. In a hive with few varroa mites in spring, the queen cranks up the brood production and the varroa follow up closely behind. During the spring and early summer the beekeeper endeavours to prevent swarming. A young vigorous queen can often outstrip the mites in egg production but after the main honey flow the queen slows down brood production which results in more mites (as the brood hatches) competing for fewer cells of brood to reproduce in. Shortly after this varroa becomes a problem and the hive is in a downward spiral.

In one forest in the USA there are a large number of feral colonies which appear to have reached a balance with varroa. It has been suggested that the bees have nudged the mites into being somehow less aggressive or virulent, but when the bees were removed to hives they fared no better than control hives. This suggests that it is the management of the bees that is the problem.It occurs to us that the feral bees swarm, probably most of them do so every year, which gives the colony a break in brood rearing. Getting a queen mated from a large colony usually takes much longer than from a nucleus colony. There ought to be a beekeeping law which states “the speed at which a virgin queen gets mated is in inverse proportion to the size of the colony”. For controlling varroa, the longer it takes the more effective it is in reducing the varroa problem.

We are not suggesting you just let the bees swarm when they see fit but to choose the timing of the swarming and to control it rather than prevent it. The ideal time for us, in southern England, is just before the main honey flow which, in recent years, has been starting around the third week of June. Swarm control before this period is largely by way of giving lots of brood space. We use only deep frames and are happy to let them have the run of three deep Langstroth brood boxes, if they need them. If the colony shows any inclination to swarm it is easily detected by examining the bottoms of the combs of the second and third boxes. If there are any swarm cells in the colony some of them (not all, by any means) will be seen there. Removing some brood will normally be all that is required to prevent swarming. Around the middle to the end of June we remove all the brood from the colonies leaving only a comb of unsealed brood behind to anchor the queen. Enough young bees are left on the brood to keep it warm and to feed the unsealed brood. These boxes of brood are stacked up on floors in a corner of the yard, four or five boxes high, as convenient. The parent hive has the queen and all the flying bees and some of the nurse bees. It has a single brood box mostly of foundation with the one unsealed brood comb and combs of honey and pollen on the outsides. On this is a queen excluder and above that any honey supers that were part of the original hive. The stacks of brood are left for ten days when all queen cells are then destroyed. The stacks are then broken down into nuclei (usually one box of sealed brood with some honey and adhering bees). The following day each nuc is given a ripe (ten day old) queen cell. These nucs can be repositioned in the same yard because queen-less bees readily mark their new position in a way that queen-right bees simply don’t. There is virtually no drifting from these nucs. With luck it will be at least another fourteen days before the queens are mated and laying. By then all the original brood will have hatched along with the mites. We have seen it suggested that the brood should be destroyed in order to kill the mites but this is neither necessary nor desirable. Varroa mites are to some extent cannibalistic which might explain the reduction in viable mites but, whatever the reason, we have found that these new colonies are nearly always the best ones the following year, with young queens and a minimum of mites.

There are a number of variations of this plan. You would want to vary it if you intended to go to the heather – maybe by uniting the new colonies with the parent. If you couldn’t get round all the yards to remove the brood you might consider an annual re-queen in late summer. Whatever variation, you are endeavouring to get the hives a break in brood rearing and it will be to their benefit if you can make it long enough for all the brood to hatch.


Of course, this could be of real interest to those nuc builders out there too.

Best wishes and I look forward to the comments on the above...

Somerford
 
Regarding nuc boxes.
I got a job lot of poly nucs from Park beekeeping a few years back. They have an insert that converts from Langstroth to National. Very handy. But I've seen a number of other poly nucs advertised. I'm not too fussed about minor design flaws or compromises in nuc boxes because they don't get the same amount of usage as the full size hives. The main thing is they're cheap and functional.
I've seen the cheap plywood travel boxes that nucs often come in, and even they can be used in an emergency during bee season.
 
So....let's say we see play cups with an egg.
As yet, we say that means nothing.

But a queen cell with larva and jelly..that means time to AS.

Assuming that the bees swarm on the 9th day, when the cell is capped, and let's say for instance that you saw the 'play cup' with egg in its third day...clearly then a next weekly inspection would be too late. (10th day).

So when do people inspect next after seeing some cups with eggs??
 
So....let's say we see play cups with an egg.
As yet, we say that means nothing.

But a queen cell with larva and jelly..that means time to AS.

Assuming that the bees swarm on the 9th day, when the cell is capped, and let's say for instance that you saw the 'play cup' with egg in its third day...clearly then a next weekly inspection would be too late. (10th day).

So when do people inspect next after seeing some cups with eggs??

Anyone????:seeya:
 
So....let's say we see play cups with an egg.
As yet, we say that means nothing.

But a queen cell with larva and jelly..that means time to AS.

Assuming that the bees swarm on the 9th day, when the cell is capped, and let's say for instance that you saw the 'play cup' with egg in its third day...clearly then a next weekly inspection would be too late. (10th day).

So when do people inspect next after seeing some cups with eggs??

Good point. I think seeing an egg in a play cup = amber alert. If twas me (though even with sunlight and glasses I struggle to see eggs) I'd try and have another look within 3 or 4 days, or just take it out if that wasnt going to be practical
 
Good point. I think seeing an egg in a play cup = amber alert. If twas me (though even with sunlight and glasses I struggle to see eggs) I'd try and have another look within 3 or 4 days, or just take it out if that wasnt going to be practical
Thanks.

Any more individual thoughts from beeks out there?

Come on....what do you all do if you see an egg in a QC??
I'm interested.

Do you hold your breath and wait a week? Remove it? Inspect in a few days if poss? What is your modus operandi?
 
I see an egg and think ok.

I see a larvae and think where is the spare hive?

PH
 
Yeah I know that an egg doesn't necessarily = swarm, but a larva and royal jelly does. I get that.

What I am asking mr PH, is just say for argument's sake, that the egg you see is 3 days old.....
When would you be planning to inspect that colony(ies) next, bearing in mind that in a week could be too late. (10th day!)

When do you inspect a colony next after seeing an egg in QC?
 
Ive had a disastrous day today. My bees swarmed yesterday. They settled in next doors hedge so I managed to get them back and re hived them last night in a new empty brood box. This morning I was checking through the original hive for queen cells, when off they went again from the new hive. Landed in exactly the same spot in next doors garden, managed to sting the dog. Very kind neighbours let me go and get them back in my little box again. I left them to all settle but when I went back this evening the box was empty. All gone!! I hope they'll be very happy in their new home, where ever they are. The garden feels empty now and I feel sad. Has anyone any thoughts on why they went again? Should I have done anything differently?
 
When do you inspect a colony next after seeing an egg in QC?

With a clipped queen: 10 days later as normal

With an unclipped queen: well to be absolutely certain of not losing a swarm it would need to be 5 days, but given that the risk is low 7 days is a perhaps a realistic compromise.
 
Ive had a disastrous day today. My bees swarmed yesterday. They settled in next doors hedge so I managed to get them back and re hived them last night in a new empty brood box. This morning I was checking through the original hive for queen cells, when off they went again from the new hive. Landed in exactly the same spot in next doors garden, managed to sting the dog. Very kind neighbours let me go and get them back in my little box again. I left them to all settle but when I went back this evening the box was empty. All gone!! I hope they'll be very happy in their new home, where ever they are. The garden feels empty now and I feel sad. Has anyone any thoughts on why they went again? Should I have done anything differently?

Put a queen excluder under the brood box when you hive the swarm. If they decide to b*gger off, they'll quickly realise that the queen has been left behind and go back in. Once brood is present, you can safely assume that they'll stay and take the bottom queen excluder off.
 
Put a queen excluder under the brood box when you hive the swarm. If they decide to b*gger off, they'll quickly realise that the queen has been left behind and go back in. Once brood is present, you can safely assume that they'll stay and take the bottom queen excluder off.

I use this tip after losing a lovely big prime swarm last year 1 day after hiving it. However I read that you should remove it after 3 days and that is what I do, generally I believe once the bees start to build comb they settle down and accept the new hive as their home.

Also I should point out that I had no drawn comb or strong colonies to donate a frame of brood from so they were having to be hived straight onto fresh foundation!

At least this year I have a frame or 2 of drawn comb for them to use in each new hive.
 

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