Swarm returns as queen is clipped - what next?

[Chris Nother]

Hi, I have a strong colony (new nuc I bought last month) - they swarmed to day and then returned to the hive, presumably because the queen is clipped. I must have missed queen cells. What do I do now? Perform artificial swarm and end up with two colonies or perform artificial swarm and reunite later on? Thanks!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I'm assuming they are in a brood box now not nuc?
you can either split the colony in two with one QC in each or, Just go in there, reduce the queen cells to one and leave it at that, but if you leave more than one QC you will end up in a week or so with a prime swarm leaving headed by a virgin so I would say option 1
Whatever you do, remember to go in again in afew days and take down any fresh emergency Queen Cells they've made.

 

[Chris Nother]

Thanks - yes, they returned to the original hive and I am assuming the queen is in there still. So I guess I should examine tomorrow -but do I keep the old queen in new box on original site and they leave one QC in old brood box on new site or do I replace the queen? Ideally I want to keep the colony as one because it was a new nuc last month from a queen from lat autumn according to the seller who is reputable. Not sure if I leave one cell and kill the queen or what. The queen was laying well but they got tight for space quickly since the weather improved here over the last ten days. This is a different hive by the way from the one you kindly advised me on yesterday!!

 

[Chris Nother]

Sorry - properly reading your reply now. So, whether or not I follow option 1 or 2 - do I remove the queen? If I go for option 1, presume I presume I leave the queen on a frame of brood (rather than a QC) and then the other colony with one QC?

 

[Tonyatcwfarm]

Queen more likely to be in the grass than the hive
You’ll need to get on your hands and knees

 

[Chris Nother]

Queen more likely to be in the grass than the hive
You’ll need to get on your hands and knees

Thanks Tony! Well, I quickly took your advice and found some bees in the grass about twenty feet away and, lo and behold the queen was there! I only retuned to beekeeping this year and have no queen cages so I carried her and some attendants to the house with the intent of putting them in a safe container and asking you what to do next - kill her, return her or what - when I dropped her and she flew a little and I can't find her now! Do I let the colony which now has all the brood and flying bees raise it's new queen? Do I remove all but one cell or let the new queen sort that or do I create two colonies?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Sorry - properly reading your reply now. So, whether or not I follow option 1 or 2 - do I remove the queen? If I go for option 1, presume I presume I leave the queen on a frame of brood (rather than a QC) and then the other colony with one QC?

If the queen is still there, and there are QC's then perform an artifical swarm.
If she was clipped my betting is she crashed and burned somewhere during the abortive swarm flight (they can still fly when clipped, just not very far before ditching.)

 

[Chris Nother]

If the queen is still there, and there are QC's then perform an artifical swarm.
If she was clipped my betting is she crashed and burned somewhere during the abortive swarm flight (they can still fly when clipped, just not very far before ditching.)

Yep, that's what happened - I found her in the grass, tried to bring her to safety and then lost her!! (can't you tell I'm rusty after retiring to beekeeping after 25+years?!!). So, I now examine the colony and reduce QCs to one? and at least most flying bees snd the brood are still there so I may keep small surplus (already had a super nearly full and a second one on. Is it better to consolidate to one other than split? Pity as the queen was a great layer, docile and young (from last summer from reputable provider) - just need of space caught up on me too quickly.

 

[enrico]

The choice is yours. Do you want more colonies or do you want to keep one big one? I presume the old queen is gone, a pity because if you had put her in a nuc with a frame of brood and one of food she would have been your back up and given you another colony by winter. Now you have to reduce your main hive to prevent losing a swarm with the first virgin out. I would split it into two with a queen cell in each. Mark the frame with the queen cell and go back in five days and remove any others they have made. Then leave alone until they are mated. You can then decide if you want to combine or keep both colonies.
E

 

[Chris Nother]

Yep, that's what happened - I found her in the grass, tried to bring her to safety and then lost her!! (can't you tell I'm rusty after retiring to beekeeping after 25+years?!!). So, I now examine the colony and reduce QCs to one? and at least most flying bees snd the brood are still there so I may keep small surplus (already had a super nearly full and a second one on. Is it better to consolidate to one other than split? Pity as the queen was a great layer, docile and young (from last summer from reputable provider) - just need of space caught up on me too quickly.

I have now found her so will I pop her in a nuc with a frame of food and brood and then reduce the QCs in original colony to 1 and hope the removal of queen and to frames will help prevent them swarming?

 

[Chris Nother]

The choice is yours. Do you want more colonies or do you want to keep one big one? I presume the old queen is gone, a pity because if you had put her in a nuc with a frame of brood and one of food she would have been your back up and given you another colony by winter. Now you have to reduce your main hive to prevent losing a swarm with the first virgin out. I would split it into two with a queen cell in each. Mark the frame with the queen cell and go back in five days and remove any others they have made. Then leave alone until they are mated. You can then decide if you want to combine or keep both colonies.
E

I have now found her in the grass so will I pop her in a nuc with a frame of food and brood and then reduce the QCs in original colony to 1 and hope the removal of queen and to frames will help prevent them swarming?

 

[Chris Nother]

I have now found her so will I pop her in a nuc with a frame of food and brood and then reduce the QCs in original colony to 1 and hope the removal of queen and to frames will help prevent them swarming?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Go back into the hive in 6 days to check for any more queen cells. The bees will make more.
Make sure you’ve shaken some extra bees into your nuc.

 

[Chris Nother]

Go back into the hive in 6 days to check for any more queen cells. The bees will make more.
Make sure you’ve shaken some extra bees into your nuc.

Thanks Dani!

 

[enrico]

If you have drawn comb for the other nuc frames it helps. Don't leave any spaces.
E

 

[beeno]

Thrills, spills and adventure - back on course. Well done.

 

[Chris Nother]

thanks Enrico!