Swarm procedure sans brood frame

[AdrianSmith]

Hello,
My three hives are all doing it at roughly the same time, which I should have been prepared for, but aren't.
One of them is raising a new queen while the old one is in a nuc.
Another is split with a snelgrove board, and the two brood boxes are just about due for uniting.
I inspected the other one yesterday and found several queen cells with eggs in them.
The thing I'm lacking is brood frames with foundation.
I've ordered some more, and they should come in time for me to put them together, but it got me thinking "Presumably putting queen and flying bees into a big empty box with just one frame would be as good a simulation of a swarm as putting her into a box with undrawn foundation".
Super frames, or empty brood frames would work if push came to shove wouldn't they?
I could take a few broodless ones from above the Snelgrove board too if needs be.
I'm thinking of http://barnsleybeekeepers.org.uk/snelgrove.html but with a slightly modified step 1 (Have prepared a second brood box with foundation and/or drawn comb)

 

[lebouche]

Hello,
My three hives are all doing it at roughly the same time, which I should have been prepared for, but aren't.
One of them is raising a new queen while the old one is in a nuc.
Another is split with a snelgrove board, and the two brood boxes are just about due for uniting.
I inspected the other one yesterday and found several queen cells with eggs in them.
The thing I'm lacking is brood frames with foundation.
I've ordered some more, and they should come in time for me to put them together, but it got me thinking "Presumably putting queen and flying bees into a big empty box with just one frame would be as good a simulation of a swarm as putting her into a box with undrawn foundation".
Super frames, or empty brood frames would work if push came to shove wouldn't they?
I could take a few broodless ones from above the Snelgrove board too if needs be.
I'm thinking of http://barnsleybeekeepers.org.uk/snelgrove.html but with a slightly modified step 1 (Have prepared a second brood box with foundation and/or drawn comb)

I've been running foundation less mostly. I drill four holes in the frame in total (I'm on 14x12), two either side of the frame. Then put two staples on one side above each hole. I thread fishing line through the holes starting at one staple and finishing at the one below forming the shape of an x. Then on the opposite side to the two staples but on the inside of the frame I place another staple. That side of the frame has fishing line on the outside of the frame which I pull around the frame and hook over the inside staple. The other two staples are pushed firmly in first ( I forgot to mention this, and the line is tied then cut). The final staple I mentioned is just to increase the tension.

I'll post a pic when I can.

 

[oliver90owner]

Yeah, well - an empty box? Where do you think they will hang their combs from? Any top bar is better than nothing. Side bars would help. Shallow frames would do.

 

[Midland Beek]

If you have at least one piece of foundation you could cut it into 3 or 4 strips and fit strips into the frames.

 

[Midland Beek]

I'll post a pic when I can.

That would be useful for anyone not following your foundationless method. So do the bees build comb in your frames?

 

[Chris Luck]

With RAB, one frame will simply mean bees make comb from top of box just as they will if you leave a space between frames. As he said, any top bar will do with a starter strip.

Chris

 

[Chris Luck]

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Chris

 

[Eyeman]

Chris
The drawn frame has wires running horizontally!
What direction gives the most consistent results?
Do they always draw the starter strip out neatly or do you find some colonies do it better than others?
Alec

 

[AdrianSmith]

If you have at least one piece of foundation you could cut it into 3 or 4 strips and fit strips into the frames.

Thank you very much for the replies everyone.
I had 3 new brood frames and 5 old ones in the garage, which have now been scorched, and I've loaded tham all with shallow foundation.
That should do me nicely. I can just get on with it without waiting for the postman.

Thanks again.

 

[Chris Luck]

Chris
The drawn frame has wires running horizontally!
What direction gives the most consistent results?
Do they always draw the starter strip out neatly or do you find some colonies do it better than others?
Alec

I'm not sure it makes any difference vertically, horizontally or zig-zag, no doubt someone that likes engineering will answer that. Given that even when I need to look at frames I always keep them vertical it's not something I have considered.

Chris