Swarm? Or not?

[babnik42]

I'm a bit perplexed. Yesterday whilst checking my hives i noticed a few bees flying under the hive. Hive is on a palette, so there's about 20cm of space under it. I got on the floor to look under and to my amazement they've built a whole load of comb under the hive. Is it a swarm (Queen and all) or just a continuation of the nest downwards? If so why? They have space, hive us well ventilated etc etc. What should I do? First cold night and they'll perish.

 

[starflex]

I guess your queen is down there, under the OMF. I had one do that a couple of seasons back. Returned from a mating flight and the bees set up shop under the hive.

You will need to dismantle the hive, see what is going on and try and retrieve the Q and put her into the main brood body.

 

[Nige.Coll]

I had exactly the same thing.
I tried putting them back in the hive twice but that didn't work they just went back under the floor.
Sorted it out by putting them into a new box with a frame of brood. Treated them like a swarming hive basically.


edit
You may have to change the floor and put the varroa tray under as i found a lot of bees tried to go back under the omf.

 

[oliver90owner]

your queen is down there, under the OMF

One guess. Unlikely as simple ad that or the OP might have noticed a lack of brood in thevbrood box.

From the OP we can guess it is on an OMF. Two possible scenarios come to mind and there may be others.

1) Queen was being superceded and new queen, on returning from mating flight joined bees under the OMF.

2) The hive was congested at some point and bees continued building downwards and crossed the OMF due to some bees going under the hive.

3) It could be a clipped queen, lost from the hive at swarming time, which has found refuge under the hive. Unlikely if regular inspections have been undertaken, of course.

4) Might even be a small swarm collected there if a solid floor.

If they have comb, they are not likely to perish in a hurry on the first cold night.

So, guesses and more guesses. More information necessary - and by then the OP will likely have worked it out for himself.

 

[babnik42]

Ok some more information. This hive was the result of reuniting two swarms that were too small to survive alone. At the time I thought there was no queen in one of the swarms. I couldn't find her and no indication she'd been there (no eggs, no brood). This hive was never congested. I actually found the queen in the main box yesterday, so if there is a queen underneath, it's not the same one. Still not sure what to do with the bottom part. My instinct tells me leave it alone. The queen is doing well in the upper part.

 

[Elaine]

Could have been the swarm that you thought did not have a queen, had a virgin queen, who left for a mating flight, and on returning took up residence underneath..... If there is evidence of a laying queen on the outside, and you've got some spare kit, why not insulate the hive well, hang the built comb in empty frames with elastic bands, and give them a chance to survive the winter?

 

[babnik42]

Difficult to see if there is a queen underneath. I have a spare nuc, perhaps I'll give it a go and move them into that.

 

[oliver90owner]

Not too difficult, shirley?

If there was a queen under there, there would most likely be brood?

The only instance of no brood would be a recent cast swarm taking up residence under a solid floor, I would think. Not the most likely possibility.

Just needs some joined up thinking and a little observation.

 

[La Folie]

I agree, sounds like one of your swarms was a caste with an undated queen. Surely leaving them be is not an option because, as you say, the cold weather will kill them. I would rename them asap.

 

[La Folie]

Bloody predictive text. It should say un-mated queen, and to re-home them!

 

[babnik42]

So, yesterday, I bit the bullet and looked under the pallet. Found a lot of comb, a lot of honey and wait for it....yes a lot of brood. I transferred the lot to frames using rubber bands and put them in a nuc. Not a massive swarm, but we'll see.

 

[Nige.Coll]

I had the same .
They are now on 8 frames and doing well.

 

[beeno]

Oh, I do like happy endings.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

Oh, I do like happy endings.

It ain't over until the fat lady sings