Swarm in supers

[pookin]

Eve all . Had a swarm couple weeks back and had to put it in 2 supers. Checked tokay and queen laying Ok so now need to get into brood box. National hives .Only Prob don't have any drawn brood foundation only new . Have 2 other hives .Adrian .

 

[Mrs Shoot]

How long have they been in the supers?

 

[pookin]

About 3 weeks . Not huge but Ok size . She's laying up Ok.

 

[Mrs Shoot]

Could you nick a brood drawn emptyish frame each from your other two hives. Reduced frames with brood and some stores to one super. Pop brood box on top with 2 drawn frames above the brood on the super and some with foundation only either side. Number of frames depending on what you think you think your bees need for space/ can keep warm. Dummy down the rest of the space with insulation while they build up in size and drawn frames, removing insulation and adding frames as they need them. They may need feeding to help them draw frames, depending on what they bring in, don't want to fill laying space with stores. Someone might/ will probably have a better idea.

 

[itma]

Eve all . Had a swarm couple weeks back and had to put it in 2 supers. Checked tokay and queen laying Ok so now need to get into brood box. National hives .Only Prob don't have any drawn brood foundation only new . Have 2 other hives .Adrian .

Are you running "brood and a half"? (Its better thansingle brood for overwintering ... but then I like 14x12, which is like brood and a half but with single deeper frames.)
Simplest way to get to brood and a half would be to put the brood box with foundation on the hive floor and rearrange your shallow frames to have the best 11 (most brood) in one box and put it on top of the deep box.
And I'd put a feeder on top of the lot with 50/50 syrup (equal weights of sugar and water). Wax-making uses lots of fuel - make sure they don't go short!
Bees naturally draw comb downwards, the wax-makers can then be in touch with the nurse bees, rather than being expected to go to work 8" or more away (if you put the big empty box on top). Wax-making below brood helps the bees (heat from wax-making rises into the brood), whereas in a box above, brood heat is being 'lost' into an empty box where wax-makers nevertheless would need to get themselves toasty warm to do their work ...
If you have one or two shallow frames with brood left over, I'd put them into the deep box, in place of foundation frames. Put them between deep frames, not next to one another, and I'd put them towards the outside (with a view to getting them out soon). Yes the bees will draw some wax beneath, but don't worry about it. Brood (future beepower) is what the colony needs to maximise right now. Boosted with more young bees, the colony can grow quickly, and will have the beepower to do the needful, including drawing out their deep box.
Any frames with zero brood (do check for eggs!) that have useful amounts of nectar/honey stores might be added to one of your other colonies.

 

[jonnybeegood]

Are you running "brood and a half"? (Its better thansingle brood for overwintering ... but then I like 14x12, which is like brood and a half but with single deeper frames.)
Simplest way to get to brood and a half would be to put the brood box with foundation on the hive floor and rearrange your shallow frames to have the best 11 (most brood) in one box and put it on top of the deep box.
And I'd put a feeder on top of the lot with 50/50 syrup (equal weights of sugar and water). Wax-making uses lots of fuel - make sure they don't go short!
Bees naturally draw comb downwards, the wax-makers can then be in touch with the nurse bees, rather than being expected to go to work 8" or more away (if you put the big empty box on top). Wax-making below brood helps the bees (heat from wax-making rises into the brood), whereas in a box above, brood heat is being 'lost' into an empty box where wax-makers nevertheless would need to get themselves toasty warm to do their work ...
If you have one or two shallow frames with brood left over, I'd put them into the deep box, in place of foundation frames. Put them between deep frames, not next to one another, and I'd put them towards the outside (with a view to getting them out soon). Yes the bees will draw some wax beneath, but don't worry about it. Brood (future beepower) is what the colony needs to maximise right now. Boosted with more young bees, the colony can grow quickly, and will have the beepower to do the needful, including drawing out their deep box.
Any frames with zero brood (do check for eggs!) that have useful amounts of nectar/honey stores might be added to one of your other colonies.

Wont scattering the brood around like that make it hard for the bees to keep the brood warm? Youll have brood above, at either end in the box below & a big gap in the middle with the foundation, shouldnt the two frames of brood go in the middle of the BB? Once foundation is drawn & q laying you could just remove the two super frames, or put them back in the super to hatch out above a QE?

 

[pookin]

Overwinter on brood and half but standard brood through rest of season.Liking 18x12 all season so will move that way now I'm on my own with bees . Under mentors watch till now .

 

[Finman]

.
You can keep super frames as brood frames. When new bees start to emerge then you will see how far the colony can build up this summer. However, give a brood box to be drawn when colony starts to grow.

 

[oliver90owner]

Not thought of the obvious way to get some drawn deep frames? Put them into those two shallows and let the bees draw them, brood in them and generally use them?

You missed a trick at the outset - deep frames would have been a better bet in the first place. Any wild comb could be removed when changing to a deep brood box and may not have been a problem if the time scale was short and frames were moved around to minimise any bottom building.

You could swap out capped brood frames to other colonies and import frames from them (after considering all issues such as health and colony strength).

Several options. Get a clean sheet of paper and be imaginative, then form a sensible basic plan of action. But keep it simple.

 

[Finman]

.
Yeah! Keep it simple.

Splended thing, that you got the swarm and queen lays there.
Then you get more boxes and foundations and everything is all right.
Guys have all kinds of longhives and top bar hives and self made huts. You have now a good hive.

 

[Finman]

Overwinter on brood and half but standard brood through rest of season. .

Standard brood or standard 2 brood. It depends how strong layer the queen is. Brood and half is a nuisance.

. It need to be a big colony in summer if you keep it it over winter brood and half. It should be now 5 boxes.

If you have one brood box in summer, colony does not need brood and half in winter.

That kind of swarm does not need huge planning. Just look how it start to grow. Foraging conditions of later half of summer affects on it.

 

[itma]

Wont scattering the brood around like that make it hard for the bees to keep the brood warm? Youll have brood above, at either end in the box below & a big gap in the middle with the foundation, shouldnt the two frames of brood go in the middle of the BB? Once foundation is drawn & q laying you could just remove the two super frames, or put them back in the super to hatch out above a QE?

I'm starting from the assumption that one would have decidedly less than 22 frames with brood.

In dealing with the (relatively unlikely after 3 weeks) case that you have brood on more than 11 frames, I'm suggesting that the 11 with the most brood go in the top box.
I'm also advising not to put 2 shallow frames adjacent in a deep box - the bees will draw comb beneath and link the two together - creating an additional different mess for you to sort out.
And I'm advising that putting shallow frames with scraps of brood "towards" (not at) the outside of the DN box will encourage the bees against hurrying to re-use those frames for brood after whatever brood emerges - so that you might remove the shallow frames from the deep box at an early opportunity.

Much depends on the strength and development of this colony, which hasn't been mentioned.

"Brood and a half" is generally employed because single national brood is inadequate laying space for Q in summer. Yes it provides more room for winter stores, but its summer brood constriction that is the real problem.

I don't like brood and a half, (preferring 14x12 or even double DN brood) but it seems like an obvious 'way out' between now and next spring.

 

[pookin]

Thanks all . Will go with brood box on stand then get shallow frames into 1 super on top of that and feed 50 / 50 .