Swarm in Chimney Stack

[Redcap]

I've been asked to remove a colony that has lived in a chimney stack for several years.

Thankfully scaffolding is in place so I can at least get to the bees ! I've done a recce, and the bees are occupying what looks like the top part of the chimney stack (the cowl has been removed and the bees temporarily protected by a piece of wood).

I can see the top of two vertical pieces of comb (located under that flat piece of wood on the top of the stack - in the pic below).....soooo, my challenge is to remove the comb, causing as little damage as possible to the bees and obviously try and locate the queen. My ideal scenario would bee to vacuum the bees out, but (a) I don't have a bee vacuum, and (b) I don't know anyone who does. I can only remove via the actual hole at the top of the the now sealed chimney. I can't remove any of the brickwork.

I've not done a chimney removal before, so very happy to receive any advice/guidance or words of wisdom from anyone who has previous experience, to help try and make this removal a success. And if anyone has a bee vaccum they would be willing to lend, that would be great! Thanks.

 

[Ian123]

Best advice leave them to it!and I can’t see a lot of scaffold. Other than that smoke or beequick to drive the bees out the top. Beequick fumes drop so perhaps a leaf blower in the fireplace to drive fumes up with beequick rags on drain rods just under nest if possible……But really I’d pass

 

[Redcap]

Sadly no access from below at all...fire places etc all sealed up. Hadn't thought of beequick rags...will ponder that thought, thanks.

 

[fizzle]

fair play that you for trying to save them. I cant give good advice but would use a fishing net as last resort if you cant reach them by hand.

 

[ericbeaumont]

anyone has a bee vaccum they would be willing to lend

Where are you in Surrey?

 

[Gilberdyke John]

I've been asked to remove a colony that has lived in a chimney stack for several years.

Thankfully scaffolding is in place so I can at least get to the bees ! I've done a recce, and the bees are occupying what looks like the top part of the chimney stack (the cowl has been removed and the bees temporarily protected by a piece of wood).

I can see the top of two vertical pieces of comb (located under that flat piece of wood on the top of the stack - in the pic below).....soooo, my challenge is to remove the comb, causing as little damage as possible to the bees and obviously try and locate the queen. My ideal scenario would bee to vacuum the bees out, but (a) I don't have a bee vacuum, and (b) I don't know anyone who does. I can only remove via the actual hole at the top of the the now sealed chimney. I can't remove any of the brickwork.

I've not done a chimney removal before, so very happy to receive any advice/guidance or words of wisdom from anyone who has previous experience, to help try and make this removal a success. And if anyone has a bee vaccum they would be willing to lend, that would be great! Thanks.

Honestly if you're not experienced in chimney removals I'd suggest you pass this job on to a professional with appropriate building skills and public liability insurance.
If the bottom of the chimney has been totally sealed up it has implications for dampness in the now inaccessible lining of the flue, plus it causes significant changes to the ventilation airflow of the building. Many such properties also have the chimney removed entirely and the void tiled over which avoids the need for high level maintenance. "A man's got to know his limitations" inspector Harry Callaghan aka Dirty Harry
Maybe this will be interesting -

 

[Newbeeneil]

I agree with the posters who recommend leaving well alone. Trying to remove, even with a bee vac will be a nightmare as the queen will disappear into the depth of the recess.
I would put the owners in contact with these if you are in the west of Surrey.
https://masterchimneysweep.co.uk/bees/

 

[Redcap]

Where are you in Surrey?

Farnham.

 

[Redcap]

Honestly if you're not experienced in chimney removals I'd suggest you pass this job on to a professional with appropriate building skills and public liability insurance.
If the bottom of the chimney has been totally sealed up it has implications for dampness in the now inaccessible lining of the flue, plus it causes significant changes to the ventilation airflow of the building. Many such properties also have the chimney removed entirely and the void tiled over which avoids the need for high level maintenance. "A man's got to know his limitations" inspector Harry Callaghan aka Dirty Harry
Maybe this will be interesting -

Great video, and wise words from Harry Callaghan ...... thanks John.

 

[Redcap]

I agree with the posters who recommend leaving well alone. Trying to remove, even with a bee vac will be a nightmare as the queen will disappear into the depth of the recess.
I would put the owners in contact with these if you are in the west of Surrey.
https://masterchimneysweep.co.uk/bees/

Thanks for that link Neil...the bees are quite local to where that company is based, so certainly an option to consider.

 

[ericbeaumont]

I've been asked to remove a colony

But have they agreed to pay you for the work? If so, you enter the world of PLI and risk assessment and promising an outcome and what happens if it you can't get them or...

If you're not being paid (and you should be) then I wouldn't take it on. Those jobs require kit and planning and experience gained extracting bees from buildings at a reasonable height - ceilings and walls are far easier - and you need to have a basic understanding of building construction because bees will lead you a merry dance, using cracks as passages to multiple chambers.

The video of ABM gave me the heeby-jeebies! When he had to go deep to cut out the first comb he stood on a wobbly upturned recycling box: if he'd slipped the scaffolding was far too low to have saved him.

 

[Swarm]

At the very least, lash that ladder to the chimney.

 

[Redcap]

But have they agreed to pay you for the work? If so, you enter the world of PLI and risk assessment and promising an outcome and what happens if it you can't get them or...

If you're not being paid (and you should be) then I wouldn't take it on. Those jobs require kit and planning and experience gained extracting bees from buildings at a reasonable height - ceilings and walls are far easier - and you need to have a basic understanding of building construction because bees will lead you a merry dance, using cracks as passages to multiple chambers.

The video of ABM gave me the heeby-jeebies! When he had to go deep to cut out the first comb he stood on a wobbly upturned recycling box: if he'd slipped the scaffolding was far too low to have saved him.

No, I'm not seeking payment. At this stage I'm exploring options that I can go back to the owners with...which may or may not end up with me doing the actual removal . (For reference, I'm well versed in carrying out risk assessments, and would not undertake anything that puts me or others at risk, but thank-you, grateful for the well-intentioned advice).

One of the options remains leaving the bees in situ - topped off with the replacement cowl and allowed to continue in their almost natural state (i.e "not fixing something that ain't broke" referring to the bees) .

The scaffolding will be there for several weeks to come, so not making any rushed decisions.

 

[JamezF]

Personally I'd not go near it unless there were another lift of scaffolding to make it possible to work at a comfortable height without a ladder and even then I'm far from certain I would. However, assuming it can be made safe to work from...

If the scaffolding is going to be there for a while, rather than cut out the colony I wonder if it might be possible to put a brood box or similar on top, with an entrance, and a "one way valve" so workers can get out of the chimney but not back in. I'm fairly sure other people here have said they've done that sort of thing before.

I've heard, though I've never done it so I can't offer the benefit of any experience, that once you have a fair number of bees in the box (perhaps once the queen is pretty much broodless because there's no forage coming in?), you can put a frame of uncapped brood in and the remaining bees, possibly including the queen, will come out to investigate. At that point you can take the entire colony away and clean up what's left in the chimney.

James

 

[Pembroke]

Here's another company that does removals from chimneys and their front end photo should give you some idea of what you could find if you do it yourself.

https://swarmcatcher.co.uk/

 

[Redcap]

Here's another company that does removals from chimneys and their front end photo should give you some idea of what you could find if you do it yourself.

https://swarmcatcher.co.uk/

Thanks Pembroke...great link; very professional looking company

 

[Redcap]

Personally I'd not go near it unless there were another lift of scaffolding to make it possible to work at a comfortable height without a ladder and even then I'm far from certain I would. However, assuming it can be made safe to work from...

If the scaffolding is going to be there for a while, rather than cut out the colony I wonder if it might be possible to put a brood box or similar on top, with an entrance, and a "one way valve" so workers can get out of the chimney but not back in. I'm fairly sure other people here have said they've done that sort of thing before.

I've heard, though I've never done it so I can't offer the benefit of any experience, that once you have a fair number of bees in the box (perhaps once the queen is pretty much broodless because there's no forage coming in?), you can put a frame of uncapped brood in and the remaining bees, possibly including the queen, will come out to investigate. At that point you can take the entire colony away and clean up what's left in the chimney.

James

Thanks James. Yes we wondered about some sort of one way valve affair ...maybe there's a gap in the market for the engineers out there?

 

[JamezF]

Thanks James. Yes we wondered about some sort of one way valve affair ...maybe there's a gap in the market for the engineers out there?

A mesh cone (with a bee space size exit at the tip) is not uncommon I believe. I think it works because whilst the bees wanting to go back in sense the colony pheromones most strongly near the base of the cone, they'll not be keen to go further away (to the tip of the cone) to get back in. If the mesh has raw edges around the exit I guess that might put them off a bit, too.

James

 

[rampino]

Hi Redcap, I have a basic bee-vac that you can use. I’m in London, but I’m driving down to Gosport on Friday afternoon and could make a detour via Farnham. If you are interested please send me your contact details.
Looking at the picture, the access arrangements don’t look too bad. Mind you I have experience of working at heights. As suggested lashing the short ladder, or using one with a wide base will make it safer.

 

[Redcap]

Hi Redcap, I have a basic bee-vac that you can use. I’m in London, but I’m driving down to Gosport on Friday afternoon and could make a detour via Farnham. If you are interested please send me your contact details.
Looking at the picture, the access arrangements don’t look too bad. Mind you I have experience of working at heights. As suggested lashing the short ladder, or using one with a wide base will make it safer.

Hi Rampino, that is a very kind series of offers, thank you so much.
I'm afraid I've only just seen your message, and I'm not able to do anything tomorrow unfortunately. Could I get back to you in slow time please, once I've discussed options in more detail with the owner...? Thank you again for your very kind and generous offer, I'll get back to you once I know more.