swarm has swarmed

[maddydog]

Caught a swarm in my bait hive 5 weeks ago. 10 days ago i finally spotted and marked the q. colony doing very well and full of bias. I added a super and spotted a couple of play cups. Yesterday I found 5 sealed and two open q cells but despite going through the frames twice I couldn't find the q. She is a big black beauty and should have been easy to spot marked white. I tore down all the qc‘s. I‘ll look again on thurs for emergency cells and the black q. A respected local breeder should have some mated queens available within days so my plan is to requeen and get rid of the swarmy tendency. Sound reasonable?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I tore down all the qc‘s. I‘ll look again on thurs for emergency cells and the black q.

Sounds like she's gone (either swarmed or dead ) Sealed QC's seem to reinforce that.
Having torn down all the QC's I'd say now there is no hope of the colony raising a new queen so you have little choice but to introduce a new one.

 

[mbc]

Sound reasonable?

Aye, sounds reasonable.

One thought you may have missed is that it is quite common for old queens who have swarmed and then expended their last burst of resource laying up a new nest to be superceded.

 

[enrico]

Actually this a good lesson that other new beekeepers may benefit from. If you are thinking of ripping out all the queen cells, rip them all out but one unsealed one. Mark the frame that it is on, then close up and start asking questions or even just go away and have a cup of tea and think about where to go from here. If indeed you need to get rid of that last queen cell you can now do so, but all is not lost if you suddenly realise your mistake!
'Non swarmy bees' do not exist. The closest you will get is bees that like to supersede rather than swarm, but even they will catch you out
Best of luck with your new queen
E

 

[oliver90owner]

A fair possibility they did not like the queen after marking and bumped her off, or she was otherwise damaged at that time.

Agree with mbc, too. Less common for queens to swarm twice. Even go so far as to say rarely - unless the bees have a particularly swarmy trait, which needs to be changed for most keepers. No good to anyone other than those who are using the bees for making up nucs for sale.

 

[Heather]

Maybe they killed her, being newly marked. Developed new queens, but you removed all chance. Lesson here.. as above... don't dump all cells thinking she MUST be here somewhere.

 

[maddydog]

Hi all thanks for the replies.

Bumping off the Q either caused by my clumsiness or her running out of steam sounds reasonable however the cells looked distinctly swarm-like. I've marked four over the last couple of weeks using a 'crown of thorns' so I can see if my technique is at fault. Do many beeks lay the frame on the hive then hold the Q in one hand while marking with the other? Seems like a gentler method?

I could do no more than guess as to whether they'd swarmed based on the number remaining. I'm far from convinced that the inexperienced (such as myself) can gauge colony size from one week to the next as forager death, hatched brood, flying foragers etc are too variable.

In order to clarify for my fellow beginners, I didn't cull all of the QC's without thinking. I'd already been in contact with the breeder so knew mated Q's would be available soon. 'If' they have swarmed then that is twice in 5 weeks so to propagate that line is hardly likely to help me or the nearby beeks! Ultimately I want the lines of my original Q's (breeding unknown) to be replaced with proven local strains.

Thanks