Swarm gone

[John Hammond]

I got a swarm Friday about 5 hours after catching it I hived it (the dump in method) as it was getting dark. put a feed on Saturday of 1-1 but buy Sunday evening all the bees was gone.
The rubbish contact feeder looks like it was dripping. Don't know if that's why!!
Any suggestions?!?!?

 

[B+.]

I got a swarm Friday about 5 hours after catching it I hived it (the dump in method) as it was getting dark. put a feed on Saturday of 1-1 but buy Sunday evening all the bees was gone.
The rubbish contact feeder looks like it was dripping. Don't know if that's why!!
Any suggestions?!?!?

Sorry John.
Sometimes a swarm will abscond. You can increase your chances of them staying by giving a frame of brood if you have it. They don't usually desert brood.
It is possible that the contact feeder was to blame if it was dripping over them. I don't recommend feeding a swarm.

 

[John Hammond]

I don't have a frame of brood as its my 1st hive as a new be

 

[Erichalfbee]

Unless the swarm has been out in the elements over a night or two don't feed. The bees have taken a good supply of honey from the hive they left.
Once they are in the new hive put a QX underneath or a piece over the entrance(that's what I do) for three days. By then they will have exhausted the stores they carried with them and will have no option but to stay. If the weather is bad and they can't get out then you can feed.
Take the QX away in case you have a cast and not a prime.

 

[Barbarian]

Was your hive new ?

Sometimes a swarm will abscond because of the smell of a new hive.

 

[Gilberdyke John]

I got a swarm Friday about 5 hours after catching it I hived it (the dump in method) as it was getting dark. put a feed on Saturday of 1-1 but buy Sunday evening all the bees was gone.
The rubbish contact feeder looks like it was dripping. Don't know if that's why!!
Any suggestions?!?!?

Sh*t happens. Feeding too soon as others have said isn't necessary but after 3 (ish) days a couple of pints of 1:1 (thin) sugar syrup helps to get comb drawn. I use a rapid feeder so no mess. If you have some fresh oa trickle mix and are suspicious about varroa you could trickle before comb is capped (judgement call).
Some folks contain the queen with a queen excluder under the brood box to stop absconding but I never have and the swarms I've caught stayed put, just lucky I guess
There'll be another one along soon.

 

[For want of a better word]

Unless the swarm has been out in the elements over a night or two don't feed. The bees have taken a good supply of honey from the hive they left.
Once they are in the new hive put a QX underneath or a piece over the entrance(that's what I do) for three days. By then they will have exhausted the stores they carried with them and will have no option but to stay. If the weather is bad and they can't get out then you can feed.
Take the QX away in case you have a cast and not a prime.

As above.... I put in a frame of crystallised stores... generally the excess from a colony that has overwintered... and been fed and stored thymolated syrup.
Bees will take it if they want it
after 3 days remove the qx

Yeghes da

 

[John Hammond]

Rapped feeder ordered to solve the dripping problem.
Hive is secondhand but scorched inside.
Just received a cool about a swarm that's been out over night if I hive them
What's the best way tip in or tip at the bottom of a ramp?
When do I feed?
And I will use a queen excluder under the brood box this time.

 

[dexter's shed]

Rapped feeder ordered to solve the dripping problem.
Hive is secondhand but scorched inside.
Just received a cool about a swarm that's been out over night if I hive them
What's the best way tip in or tip at the bottom of a ramp?
When do I feed?
And I will use a queen excluder under the brood box this time.

most swarms I catch are housed in poly nucs until they cover most of the frames and then transferred into hives, I don't put on queen excluders to stop her from leaving as you don't know if she's a virgin or not, don't feed until at least 4 days later, but here's one I let walk in to there new home, as I'd run out of frames

https://youtu.be/JhXOKrEZURA

 

[einsteinagogo]

Rapped feeder ordered to solve the dripping problem.
Hive is secondhand but scorched inside.
Just received a cool about a swarm that's been out over night if I hive them
What's the best way tip in or tip at the bottom of a ramp?
When do I feed?
And I will use a queen excluder under the brood box this time.

If you've never tipped them on a sheet, or ramp, and watched them go in, it's with doing this once, to see it.

The problem I've found, as I hive swarms in the evening when it gets colder, it can take a while for all the bees to *slowly* walk up the ramp and get into the hive.

I think i was told it's best to hive of an evening, and you have a better chance they will stay and not abscond.

I now just prepare the hive, solid floor (as a temp solution), queen excluder, bb, fill with foundation, remove three frames from the middle, pour in the bees, put the foundation back, wait for the frames to settle, and bees to climb up the frames, crown board, roof, and walk away.

depending up the size of the swarm, I sometimes, use a super or eke, under the brood box. (otherwise you'll end up with frames half out of the bb, waiting for bees to rise! and again cold weather, this can be slow, and darkness is falling.).

when they've settled later, and they've not absconded, I remove the eke/super, solid floor, replace with OMF, and treat with OA (if required).

 

[Dishmop]

If you've never tipped them on a sheet, or ramp, and watched them go in, it's with doing this once, to see it.

and take video to show your friends.

 

[John Hammond]

Oh I have a omf is it worth changing it to a solid one at first then. Or just put the inspection board in?

 

[einsteinagogo]

If no solid floor, I would close it with the inspection board. (that will also give you a mite count drop, over 7 days!)

 

[Samurailord]

We lost the first two swarms we collected when we started beekeeping last year.

The first was tipped into the hive around midday, but they left about 4.

The next weekend we were lucky enough to get a second swarm, but we held onto this one until evening as we thought that if they stayed overnight we would have more chance of them staying. 10am the next morning they were happily buzzing inside the hive, but at around 1pm they too left. They had started to draw out comb, but even so they still went.

We were sat in the garden a couple of hours later when another swarm went right over us and settled in a neighbour's garden. I went over and performed my fist ever swarm capture, wearing my wife's smock (which was way too small) and blundered my way through the process. How I didn't get stung during all that, even allowing for the fact that swarms are very docile, I will never know.

Later that evening we placed the QE under the brood box tipped the majority of the swarm inside and dropped the remainder onto a sheet in front of the hive for them to walk in.

Three days later we removed the QE and fed with a rapid feeder.

We still have this colony now, it is our only one at present but we are hoping to split it later this year. They swarmed earlier this year as we couldn't inspect due to our schedules not tying in with the good weather, but I hope to be more successful going forwards.

 

[Erichalfbee]

If you've never tipped them on a sheet, or ramp, and watched them go in, it's with doing this once, to see it.

I agree but probably not good if they've been out for a night.
Regarding QX.... It doesn't matter that you have a cast with a virgin ready to mate. She'll be fine for two or three days......but I might look at the weather forecast.

 

[Jack Straw]

Ramp and queen marking

I've read over the last couple of days (it may have been on this forum but I'm cannot find the post) that someone tips the swarm onto a board and watches for the queen and when spotted she gets picked, marked and returned. In his/her opinion the queen is easy to see amongst the bees spread out and making their way up the board.

I had not heard of this before, I like the logic behind that but I think I would be worried about them absconding. Has anyone tried this with/without success?

 

[einsteinagogo]

I've read over the last couple of days (it may have been on this forum but I'm cannot find the post) that someone tips the swarm onto a board and watches for the queen and when spotted she gets picked, marked and returned. In his/her opinion the queen is easy to see amongst the bees spread out and making their way up the board.

I had not heard of this before, I like the logic behind that but I think I would be worried about them absconding. Has anyone tried this with/without success?

I think that depends, on how good you are are queen spotting!

 

[oliver90owner]

Main thread -was it a prime or a cast?

Hijacking poster - yes, she is easier to spot on large white sheet, compwred to dumping in. Yes she could be marked at that stage, but the answer to my question to the OP might be pertinent.

 

[YorkshireBees]

I've read over the last couple of days (it may have been on this forum but I'm cannot find the post) that someone tips the swarm onto a board and watches for the queen and when spotted she gets picked, marked and returned. In his/her opinion the queen is easy to see amongst the bees spread out and making their way up the board.

I had not heard of this before, I like the logic behind that but I think I would be worried about them absconding. Has anyone tried this with/without success?

Personally I wouldn't do this unless you know she is mated!!

In general I used to tip swarms into hives and lost a couple then I started with the QX under the brood box and didn't lose any.

In terms of comb, if your lucky enough (obviously not beginners) to have some drawn brood comb (even old manky stuff) this also helps.

Since I bought my first polynuc I know ONLY ever use that as it makes fetching swarms so much easier and once they are in there is no need to transfer them to a full size hive until they need it!

It is amazing how many bees will fit in a 6 frame Nuc.
Here are a couple of pics of a large Prime swarm collected last Friday and them fanning at the entrance.

 

[itma]

We lost the first two swarms we collected when we started beekeeping last year.

The first was tipped into the hive around midday, but they left about 4.

The next weekend we were lucky enough to get a second swarm, but we held onto this one until evening as we thought that if they stayed overnight we would have more chance of them staying. 10am the next morning they were happily buzzing inside the hive, but at around 1pm they too left. ...

There seems to be a bit of swarm-taking wisdom that has been passed over in these cases.

After getting the swarm into the box (see next para), the box should be left on site (eg under the tree where the swarm cluster was found) UNTIL THE EVENING.
This ensures that scouts, foragers and stragglers have the maximum chance to rejoin the main group (hopefully inc Q).
It means that hardly any bees get left behind to cause continuing annoyance.
When the evening comes, the box can be closed and removed. (And tipped into a hive immediately on arrival.)
If the bees don't stay in the box (and return to the tree instead), then the swarm-catcher has failed to get Q and must try again! Taking them away without Q is of course a recipe for failure.
Once she is in, Nasonov action at the entrance will both tell the beekeeper, and call in the rest of the swarm to where Q is rather than where she was.

Like YorkshireBees, I use a polynuc as my swarm-collecting box.
It makes things so much simpler!
Cluster in, entrance disc set to QX. Gently float in a couple of frames with foundation. Once you are sure Q is there (and so you don't need to chuck in any more bees), add the rest of the frames (inc a drawn one if possible).
In the evening, close the entrance, transport, then reset to QX and (re)secure with a map-pin or nail.
After a couple of days, open the entrance properly.
There is no need to properly "hive" them until they have moved in properly on those frames and look to need more space than the nuc affords.

I wouldn't dream of trying to find and mark Q until after I know that she is laying good worker brood. Marking a virgin (in a cast) isn't exactly going to help her to get mated.