Swarm control question

[Rhyolite]

I have a double brood box set up with six frames in each and large insulated dummy boards to fill the gaps. (I saw a post last year with a lady who did this to save her back, they over wintered great for me and lifting is easier)

My question, can I put one box on a new base and keep the other box on the existing base and let the bees figure it out?

Or is it best to find the queen and move her with some brood and food etc?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I'm struggling to work out what you are trying to achieve there, maybe a few clues?

 

[pargyle]

That's basically a walk away split .. as long as there are eggs in both of the two boxes the bees will build queen cells in the half that is queenless. But ... you need enough bees and capped brood if you are going to split them. It's not really swarm prevention - only insomuch as you are making smaller colonies which may be less likely to swarm - presumably you are going to let them expand into more frames ?

If you have found queen cells then it's a bit late for that and you need to do a proper AS ... Wally Shaw is the bible for swarm control.

https://beekeepingforum.co.uk/threads/wally-shaw-leaflets.45021/

 

[Rhyolite]

I'm struggling to work out what you are trying to achieve there, maybe a few clues?

Essentially a walk away split without having to inspect all the frames to make sure the split has enough stores, eggs etc.

I did a quick inspection of a few frames recently and all looks good but I don't want to be pulling everything apart if possible.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Essentially a walk away split without having to inspect all the frames to make sure the split has enough stores, eggs etc.

I did a quick inspection of a few frames recently and all looks good but I don't want to be pulling everything apart if possible.

So not swarm control then, just a messy split by the sounds of it.

 

[pargyle]

The answer then is no ... you really need to go through the frames and balance the brood, the stores and ensure there are eggs in each box, you don't have to find the queen - they will sort that side of things out themselves if you give them the means,

 

[Sutty]

A walkaway split isn't the best way to make increase, though it can work.
However conditions need to be good enough for the bees to raise another queen. At the moment I don't have many drones in my colonies and I haven't seen any flying yet, so I'd be reluctant to split anything at the moment.
Do you have queen cells?

 

[pargyle]

A walkaway split isn't the best way to make increase, though it can work.
However conditions need to be good enough for the bees to raise another queen. At the moment I don't have many drones in my colonies and I haven't seen any flying yet, so I'd be reluctant to split anything at the moment.
Do you have queen cells?

 

[Rhyolite]

I haven't had a chance (with work and weather) to have a full inspection yet so no idea on queen cells etc. They swarmed last year once in early May, possibly twice but I got both swarms back so trying to figure out the best approach for this year (second year at it).

 

[Sutty]

Not sure where in Ireland you are, temperatures, what sort of hive, etc, but you could really do with having a decent look.
In your position if I *really* couldn't inspect properly (and especially if a poly hive) I'd remove the dummy boards and fill with frames or foundation so they have lots of room to expand.
This is a LONG way from ideal though!

 

[pargyle]

I haven't had a chance (with work and weather) to have a full inspection yet so no idea on queen cells etc. They swarmed last year once in early May, possibly twice but I got both swarms back so trying to figure out the best approach for this year (second year at it).

It's still early in the season so don't panic ... I haven't been into mine yet either but it's imminent. Be prepared to find queen cells and know what you need to do if you find them. If there are no queen cells check the space the queen has to lay and add frames if there is lots of brood and not enough space .. check the stores level and then decide what you really want from this colony ... more bees or a honey harvest ... then make a plan.

 

[Antipodes]

I haven't had a chance (with work and weather) to have a full inspection yet so no idea on queen cells etc. They swarmed last year once in early May, possibly twice but I got both swarms back so trying to figure out the best approach for this year (second year at it).

This article below is quite good and worth a read (if you haven't already).

https://www.theapiarist.org/tag/expanding-the-broodnest/

 

[Michael Palmer]

I'd rather see you purchase a queen from a reputable breeder, and do a Doolittle split to make the new colony.

 

[Erichalfbee]

I'd rather see you purchase a queen from a reputable breeder, and do a Doolittle split to make the new colony.

I had to look that up. Great name

 

[Rhyolite]

I like this doolittle method. It seems relatively straightforward. Thanks for the feedback everyone. Good luck this year.

 

[ericbeaumont]

double brood box set up with six frames in each and large insulated dummy boards

remove the dummy boards and fill with frames or foundation

Which of these two is the current hive set-up, Rhyolite?

 

[Sutty]

Dolittle technique is new to me, though makes sense. I wouldn't want too much distance between original brood nest and the separated brood frames though.
Of course it still needs decent conditions for raising a new queen!!

 

[Sutty]

In OP's case you could do this, (shake off bees and put eggs & young larvae in top box with a QE between, wait a while then split) I'd still be concerned it's early to rely on them to raise a new queen.

 

[Rhyolite]

Which of these two is the current hive set-up, Rhyolite?

I have a double brood box both with six frames each. I'm trying to keep them this way for my back but I can keep the full size super on top as they're manageable.

 

[Sutty]

You *could* run a two shallow box brood chamber with a queen excluder on top if the weight is an issue for your back. More frames to examine but they are very light and easy to examine.