Swarm control by killing the queen

[JohnRoss]

I collected a prime swarm on the 15th of May. They have just built up to fill a single brood Box and going through them today I found charged queen cells again. I don't have the equipment for another AS and I have more bees than I want. Given that this queen is trying to swarm a second time this season I don't like the swarmy trait. Would it work if I killed her. Left the bees for a week. Knocked down any queen cells then when they are hopelessly queenless unite them to another colony?

That is the current plan unless someone has a better Idea.

 

[REDWOOD]

Just kill the queen, knock down queen cells and unit straight away

 

[Excession]

Bit more info would be good.
How much space have they got? Or not as the case may be!

 

[REDWOOD]

Or re-queen after a few hours

 

[JohnRoss]

they have deep national brood box of which they cover all but outer two frames and shallow super which they are filling a little bit of honey into but it is not crowded, center frames are not full of honey, only starting to draw the outer frames of super. I don't think they are that congested.

 

[JohnRoss]

The deed is done, queen squashed, hives united. I placed a swarm I caught on Wednesday on the site of the hive with the squashed queen and narrowed the entrance to catch any flyers. we will see how it goes.

 

[Finman]

. Knocked down any queen cells then when they are hopelessly queenless unite them to another colony?

.

That will not kill swarming fever. The colony will be uppset if you do what you told. It will not forage any yield. If you join it, it may transfer swarming fever to another colony.

First you should kill swarming fever. Then you do something clever, like change the queen.

 

[Roola]

That will not kill swarming fever. The colony will be uppset if you do what you told. It will not forage any yield. If you join it, it may transfer swarming fever to another colony.

First you should kill swarming fever. Then you do something clever, like change the queen.

how do you kill swarming fever?

 

[Bosleeu]

how do you kill swarming fever?

You can't, your only hope is to try and prevent it.

 

[enrico]

You can only 'kill swarming fever' by making them believe they have swarmed, this needs to be an as, demaree, shook swarm etc.
Then you can unite
E

 

[JohnRoss]

How do the workers from hive 1 who have had their queen culled get the queen in hive two to lay in a queen cell? The hive I united them with doesn't even have a play cup in it.

 

[meidel]

worker bees are not unknown for transferring eggs to playcells at will

 

[beeno]

worker bees are not unknown for transferring eggs to playcells at will

Any empirical studies on this meidel or anyone else?

 

[Finman]

Any empirical studies on this meidel or anyone else?

Bees make emercengy cells and start rearing with 3 days old larva.
They do not move eggs. No emercengy cells are in queen cup cells.

When it has been researched emercengy queens, all winner virgins are from 3 days old larva.

 

[Finman]

.
It is not rare that a swarming hive has lost its laying queen. You cannot make a theory from that. It is very clear what the colony will do. It rears a new queen and swarms with first queen which emerges.

 

[meidel]

Any empirical studies on this meidel or anyone else?

I should have put my tinhat on - i only said it based on my own and the experience of others at my local association - the bees were found to have polished an arc of cells in the lowest super, next to the Qx, the queen is not in the super and at next inspection, there are capped brood in these frames.

On another occasion, we'd removed the queen on spotting swarm cells, and at next inspection (5 days later), found that swarm cells were being drawn on the outermost frame where there had previously only been stores and empty playcups. So those are my empirical evidence. Of course I only keep 2-3 hives myself but am part of a larger apiary and local association.

 

[beeno]

Hi meidel,
No need for tin hat - just interested. However, based on your evidence and my limited experience I would say that first instance can be dismissed on account that some queens can get through the QE or faulty QE. Second instance can be dismissed on account that not all queen cups were examined for eggs or missed or inability to differentiate between swarm/supercedure cells and emergency cells.

 

[meidel]

hi beeno - if it had been someone else's experience I would've agreed with you too. But the two examples are my own. In the example I gave the queen was a decent size and had been isolated previously in one of those clip queen cages where she was unable to escape, so unlikely that she surreptitiously went up to lay in the super and came back down again. What you say has also been known to happen - true, on one of the other colonies the queen did escape into the super but she went and laid in the topmost one and never returned downstairs!

The other example of stores and playcups, you are probably right too - I may have been so exercised at finding swarm cells that I could have missed the eggs on the stores frames.

 

[beehive1234]

Praps the bees are trying their hardest to make up the colonies lost in the last few years. Should we be discouraging that !!!!!!!

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Praps the bees are trying their hardest to make up the colonies lost in the last few years. ging that !!!!!!!

How do they know that - did they read it in the guardian?