Swarm Clusters

[Tiro Turbidus]

A few years back I 'captured' a swarm which decided to cluster on the underside of a nuc that I'd hung in a tree as a bait box. I kept waiting fo them to move into the nuc, but it seems there's no dance move to indicate 'immediately above your head'. After four days, I saw that they were building wild comb, so I lowered the box and took the cluster from there.

This year, I have a slightly different situation. After a run of very hot, dry weather, a swarm (probably from my hives - hangs head in shame) clustered high in a conifer, well beyond the possibility of collection. I set out four bait-boxes and all four were being inspected. Bad timing. The next day, the weather broke and we had two days of torrential rain, and now an ongoing run of cool, wet weather. The conifer is fairly open and offers very little shelter. It's been five days now, and the cluster (or at least some of it) is still there. Two or three bees (literally) are occasionally nosing about at the bait boxes, but I can't see whether they've begun to build comb inside the cluster.

It never ceases to amaze how resilient they are. But, of course, they can't 'think outside the box', or in this case, 'outside the cluster'.

Question. Does anyone have experience of how long a swarm can remain in cluster before they are obliged to build comb and set-up their nest on the spot?

There's nothing I can do, but I would be interested to know what others have experienced.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I had one arrive at the apiary and landed on a tall unclimbable holly sapling, they were there for over a week, in torrential rain and wind for some of it, before they decided to move. no sign of comb building or anything on the tree.

 

[Sutty]

I don't know the answer to the comb-building question, but is there any way you can give the tree a really good shake to dislodge them to a hopefully lower (collectable) position?
Eg connect a rope as high as you can and use several people or even a vehicle to shake it.

 

[Tiro Turbidus]

Well, that's the record so far. Maybe there's hope for them yet.

 

[Tiro Turbidus]

I had one arrive at the apiary and landed on a tall unclimbable holly sapling, they were there for over a week, in torrential rain and wind for some of it, before they decided to move. no sign of comb building or anything on the tree.

Well, that's the record so far. Maybe there's hope for them yet

 

[Tiro Turbidus]

I don't know the answer to the comb-building question, but is there any way you can give the tree a really good shake to dislodge them to a hopefully lower (collectable) position?
Eg connect a rope as high as you can and use several people or even a vehicle to shake it.

Unfortunately, it's a substantial tree - pretty unshakable - and surrounded by heavy undergrowth. I've borrowed a cherry-picker in the past and taken a swarm down from an otherwise unreachable position, but there's no way to get near this one. I'm not desperate to get it for my own purposes, but they won't survive here in the open for long (Cairngorms), and certainly not overwinter. I just don't like to see them perish unnecessarily (or even necessarily) - hobbyist wimp that I am.

 

[0bee-1]

i had a bit of fun with an inaccessible swarm once.. It was on a very tall thin ash tree.. i used a fishersman's bait catapult to fire a nut (from a bolt!) attached to a thin line over an adjacent branch ... quite tricky! and then tied a poly rope to the line pulled that over the branch and attached a nuc containing some old drawn comb (and a drop of lemon grass) and hoisted it up into the canopy. came back in a few days and they had gone in. lowered it down gently one evening closed up and took away. i enjoy a challenge

 

[Tiro Turbidus]

i had a bit of fun with an inaccessible swarm once.. It was on a very tall thin ash tree.. i used a fishersman's bait catapult to fire a nut (from a bolt!) attached to a thin line over an adjacent branch ... quite tricky! and then tied a poly rope to the line pulled that over the branch and attached a nuc containing some old drawn comb (and a drop of lemon grass) and hoisted it up into the canopy. came back in a few days and they had gone in. lowered it down gently one evening closed up and took away. i enjoy a challenge

This lot have got a nuc in a tree about ten metres away and a brood box on a stump at the bottom of the tree they're in, but still not getting the message. I'm a lemon grass advocate too, and it seems to work. I think the problem here is just that it's wet and cool. Assuming they don't drown, I suppose the need to forage is the limiting factor.

 

[drex]

Had a swarm build comb about 35 feet up an old elm tree, on the south side of the trunk. They got through one winter but the tree came down in a gale the following spring. The comb was so smashed I could not save it. This was just outside my apiary boundary where 3 bait boxes were set up

 

[Newbeeneil]

A few years back I 'captured' a swarm which decided to cluster on the underside of a nuc that I'd hung in a tree as a bait box. I kept waiting fo them to move into the nuc, but it seems there's no dance move to indicate 'immediately above your head'. After four days, I saw that they were building wild comb, so I lowered the box and took the cluster from there.

I've had a similar situation on a bait hive. They clustered under the box and produce 3 combs before I knocked them into a new box.

 

[Sutty]

Had a swarm build comb about 35 feet up an old elm tree, on the south side of the trunk. They got through one winter but the tree came down in a gale the following spring. The comb was so smashed I could not save it. This was just outside my apiary boundary where 3 bait boxes were set up

I'm amazed they managed a winter with combs in the open!

 

[CaptainCymru]

Tried a Russian Scion ?

 

[Erichalfbee]

Tried a Russian Scion ?

I’m certainly going to. Our wild bees swarmed twice into a very difficult spot.

 

[gmonag]

Has anyone found a way to induce a swarm?
If, having found swarm preparation, we could get the bees actually to swarm and settle on a Russian Scion (or similar), the resulting cluster should be ideally constituted, have location amnesia and more likely to succeed. I have captured an airborne swarm by waving the caged/clipped queen in the air and then putting her on the top bars of a nuc. The swarm just clustered round her in minutes.
It might be an alternative to performing a complex Pagden/Heddon/AS etc.

 

[CaptainCymru]

I'd just leave a scion out throughout the swarm season and do your best to prevent swarming .least they know it's there then if they do go for it

 

[gmonag]

It was just a thought... probably too far out in left-field.

 

[Tiro Turbidus]

Had a swarm build comb about 35 feet up an old elm tree, on the south side of the trunk. They got through one winter but the tree came down in a gale the following spring. The comb was so smashed I could not save it. This was just outside my apiary boundary where 3 bait boxes were set up

Oddly, this one is in a spruce which was immediately next to an elm that I had to fell when it succumbed to Dutch Elm Disease. Pity, the elm would have given them better shelter and just maybe they'd have made it through.

 

[Tiro Turbidus]

I've had a similar situation on a bait hive. They clustered under the box and produce 3 combs before I knocked them into a new box.
View attachment 27524

Yup. Just like that. And people say that bees are intelligent!

 

[Tiro Turbidus]

Tried a Russian Scion ?

I hadn't heard of that before but it is a brilliant idea. I just watched the video at Whistle Thicket about it, and it's very appealing. I'm wondering whether I could make a contraption to hold two or three standard brood frames that could be lowered directly into a brood box, without any transfer trauma at all. I think I'll have a go at that next year - along with my old-fashioned nucs and see what they prefer. Thanks for the heads-up.

 

[Tiro Turbidus]

Has anyone found a way to induce a swarm?
If, having found swarm preparation, we could get the bees actually to swarm and settle on a Russian Scion (or similar), the resulting cluster should be ideally constituted, have location amnesia and more likely to succeed. I have captured an airborne swarm by waving the caged/clipped queen in the air and then putting her on the top bars of a nuc. The swarm just clustered round her in minutes.
It might be an alternative to performing a complex Pagden/Heddon/AS etc.

That's an interesting idea too. I reckon there's a lot of comedy potential in swinging a caged queen about. Although I wonder what happens since there's already a queen with the swarm - are they attracted by another queen?