Swapping hive types... how?

[Greggorio]

I've asked this before but it was ages ago and well I've been a little busy with having car accidents and deaths in the family (not at the same time) so only just got round to sorting myself out ready for this year of beekeeping.

Ok I currently have Warre hives (34cm*34cm) and am changing to French Dadant (43cm*50cm)

My current two existing colonies need to be moved from one to the other.

Supposition A
I considered making something temporary out of wood that would bridge them and drum the hive to move mthe queen into the Dadant and then put in an excluder. Keep the Warre's until the current brood have hatched and then remove them and all is good. I assume though that at this time of year the colony may not be big enough to support some trying to keep existing brood warm and some to keep new brood warm.

Supposition B
I turn the hives upside down (anyone want to explain why upside down?) and put the Dadant on top of this and then drum the sides of the Warre until the colony moves up into Dadant. Then lift off, remove the Warre and hopefully most of them including the queen will be in the Dadant. How hard do I drum? How the hell do I know if it's working? How do I know if it worked at all?

Next problem with this is how much i stunt my colonies growth by removing all current brood. Someone said I could cut some of it out, use elastic bands to hold it in an empty frame and put this inside the Dadant. Does this sound sensible?

Also before anyone gives me a huge tirade... please don't. Just helpful advice whether you think I'm an idiot or not is irrelevant and will not make your genitals any bigger, in fact it probably makes them a little bit smaller


Any other ideas are welcome

 

[deanrpwaacs]

How about once its wam enough doing a shook swarm from one to the other ? Im a new bee so dont shoot me down .

 

[dpearce4]

you could wait till the middle of april then do a shook swarm and then feed.

 

[BeeJayBee]

Or wait until you see signs of charged swarm cells and shook swarm, they'll be ready for comb building then.

But if you're using just top bars in the Warre it might be difficult to shook swarm because the comb could break, so a variation on a Bailey Frame Change might be best - put new box above and leave them to it. You'd have to make some sort of template for the Dadant to sit on. I have no idea if drumming will speed things up, but that's only because I haven't tried it.

If you cut out all existing brood comb and expect them to reattach it neatly they may disappoint you, and you'll end up with fairly untidy frames at least until next year.

 

[Greggorio]

Or wait until you see signs of charged swarm cells and shook swarm, they'll be ready for comb building then.

But if you're using just top bars in the Warre it might be difficult to shook swarm because the comb could break, so a variation on a Bailey Frame Change might be best - put new box above and leave them to it. You'd have to make some sort of template for the Dadant to sit on. I have no idea if drumming will speed things up, but that's only because I haven't tried it.

If you cut out all existing brood comb and expect them to reattach it neatly they may disappoint you, and you'll end up with fairly untidy frames at least until next year.

by mid april could a colony normally cope with having a split brood?

can't do a shook swarm as comb will fall apart more than likely.

If I get some ply and cut a hole the same size as the Warre internally with a slot for a top entrance and the Dadant just sits on top. I'll feed them and give them some time to draw some comb before attempting drumming.

 

[Poly Hive]

No need for any of this drumming and turning upside down!

Make a piece of plywood or some sort of sheet wood to fit the biggest unit. Then put what ever you need on top of the one you want out of. Cut a hole in the sheet material to let the bees up, as big a hole as you can mange.

Once the queen is up and laying in the top unit where you want her insert an excluder and after 24 days job done.

Put the top unit on the floor, remove the empty one and thats it.

KISS

PH

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

No need for any of this drumming and turning upside down!

Make a piece of plywood or some sort of sheet wood to fit the biggest unit. Then put what ever you need on top of the one you want out of. Cut a hole in the sheet material to let the bees up, as big a hole as you can mange.

Once the queen is up and laying in the top unit where you want her insert an excluder and after 24 days job done.

Put the top unit on the floor, remove the empty one and thats it.

KISS

PH

The queen will move up first chance she'll get - far less disruption and stress this way.

 

[Greggorio]

music to my ears. The first Dadant just arrived by courier

What thickness ply should I get? The warre's are bottom bee space and the Dadants are top. So would 9mm be ideal as it leaves a bee space between the two of them?

Do I block the original exit?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

Leazve the original bottom exit for now.
Doesn't matter what thickness plywood as it's only temporary - remember to cut the hole as big as possible - the inside dimensions of the Warree hive.

 

[Greggorio]

ok so two exits. I'll get whatever offcut ply the shop has and I'll cut the hole to exactly the internal warre dimensions. Though saying that the ply has to bear the weight of the Dadant so perhaps not too thin

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

ok so two exits.

How two?

 

[Greggorio]

How two?

I had it in my head for some unknown reason to give them an exit in the plywood so between the Warre and the Dadant. Not sure where the idea came from or how I decided someone had suggested it either... Must be going mad

 

[Greggorio]

also why will the queen move up? Does she tend to make brood as high as possible?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

I had it in my head for some unknown reason to give them an exit in the plywood so between the Warre and the Dadant. Not sure where the idea came from or how I decided someone had suggested it either... Must be going mad

The bottom entrance will be fine for a while - some people will say that once the queen has moved up to the new box you should put in a QX, shut the bottom entrance, have a new entrance under the new box until all brood has emerged from the bottom box. But in this particular case I would just stick to the lower entrance, even after you have put in the QX.

also why will the queen move up? Does she tend to make brood as high as possible?

She does - warmest place, just under the stores, then she will move down as the top fills up (that's the theory the mad monk pinned all his design on anyway )

 

[Poly Hive]

The queen always wants to go up.

I explained how to do this with out any complex "methods" just let the bees do it all for you. No stress and no mess.

PH

 

[Greggorio]

The queen always wants to go up.

I explained how to do this with out any complex "methods" just let the bees do it all for you. No stress and no mess.

PH

I know, I'm gonna do it. I just confused myself in the process

 

[Greggorio]

ok I did it and checked it a week later and none of the bees have moved up or drawn out comb.

Any ideas?

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

give them time - what's the weather like with you? how strong's the colony? they need decent weather and stores coming in to draw comb - you could try putting a feed of 1:1 syrup on to get them started.
Another thought has just occurred - if there are stores above the original nest then the queen will be reluctant to cross this honey barrier to get at the new box. It is then you may consider turning the brood box upside down (no drumming or any of that nonsense) and putting the new brood box directly above the brood. But only once they've taken an interest in comb building in the new box.