Suspicion of the foulbrood in dead hive

[Bosanac96]

Hi all,
im from Bosnia, this is my first post here.
Im beginer in beekeeping, this is my second year of beekiping i have three bee hives, but in the march one of them died, i think becuase the number of the bees was small so when the weather changed from warm to cold they died, they had food, but not in reach, becuase they are warming the brood , small portion of two frames was covered in brood, capped larvae, porobably about 20 cells on both frames.
Today i found the time to clean the hive from dead bees and i found that in those brood cells there are rotten larvae, i thought it vas foulbrood and i take the toothpick to see if the gui mass in cells is stratching, and it was not, i smelled cells and in one of the cells i smelled like souer smell. My question is , is this the european/american foulbrood, or is it just dead larvae decomposing inside cells. What would happen to that brood if it will be left like that without bees to warm and take care of them, do they dry or something elese. Cells have been capped regularly nothing semed wrong, some of them are opened and in some of them there are dried eggs like they were layed down today, brood is nicely spread in circle, today is mybe third week from the death of the beehive. Sorry for my bad english, i destroyed my two frames with brood before taking picture of them.

 

[Ian123]

Very hard to tell from discription, if you are worried then destroy the frames from that hive and flame/scortch your hive body as a preventative measure. Unless you have a history in your area or have experinced it before chances are in your favour.No idea if you have to report in your area...Good luck Ian

 

[Bosanac96]

Thanks, mybe better question is, does capped larva rot during time, when the bees are dead? Becuase i think that mybe the brood is just rotted and decomposing, as a result of bees being dead for about three weeks or more, can this be true?

 

[Finman]

Thanks, mybe better question is, does capped larva rot during time, when the bees are dead? Becuase i think that mybe the brood is just rotted and decomposing, as a result of bees being dead for about three weeks or more, can this be true?

The bees do a small pin hole into the cap.

When the slime is dry, it is like a coffee brown animal nail.

If a dead bee is rotten, it is black.
.

 

[masterBK]

The bacteria (several species that can do this) that generate the smell in cases of EFB are secondary to the initial bacteria ( Melissococcus plutonius) that kill the larvae. The former are found in most cases after larvae die eg in abandoned drone brood and so you get same smell.
In case of the AFB the characteristic smell (which is not detectable in the early stages) is the result solely of the action of the pathogen responsible Paenibacillus larvae. Best to destroy the comb and sterilise the woodwork with blowlamp or similar.
Do you have government officials (bee disease officers?) that will check things out for you like we have in the UK?

 

[Bosanac96]

The bacteria (several species that can do this) that generate the smell in cases of EFB are secondary to the initial bacteria ( Melissococcus plutonius) that kill the larvae. The former are found in most cases after larvae die eg in abandoned drone brood and so you get same smell.
In case of the AFB the characteristic smell (which is not detectable in the early stages) is the result solely of the action of the pathogen responsible Paenibacillus larvae. Best to destroy the comb and sterilise the woodwork with blowlamp or similar.
Do you have government officials (bee disease officers?) that will check things out for you like we have in the UK?

Hi,
thanks for the reply, i will sterilise the woodwork, and destroy comb, as you suggested to be sure that is safe to use it with other bees, becuase i dont know for sure it is foulbrood. Here in Bosnia we dont have bee disease officers i think, we have beekeeping associations that act when foulbrood is detected, as i heard beekeeper need to give sample of brood to the lab (but i already destroyed brood), and if they determine that hive is positive to foulbrood they take the infected hive and burn it.

 

[B+.]

Hi all,
im from Bosnia, this is my first post here.
Im beginer in beekeeping, this is my second year of beekiping i have three bee hives, but in the march one of them died, i think becuase the number of the bees was small so when the weather changed from warm to cold they died, they had food, but not in reach, becuase they are warming the brood , small portion of two frames was covered in brood, capped larvae, porobably about 20 cells on both frames.
Today i found the time to clean the hive from dead bees and i found that in those brood cells there are rotten larvae, i thought it vas foulbrood and i take the toothpick to see if the gui mass in cells is stratching, and it was not, i smelled cells and in one of the cells i smelled like souer smell. My question is , is this the european/american foulbrood, or is it just dead larvae decomposing inside cells. What would happen to that brood if it will be left like that without bees to warm and take care of them, do they dry or something elese. Cells have been capped regularly nothing semed wrong, some of them are opened and in some of them there are dried eggs like they were layed down today, brood is nicely spread in circle, today is mybe third week from the death of the beehive. Sorry for my bad english, i destroyed my two frames with brood before taking picture of them.

Is the clump of dead bees head-first into the comb? If so, this is isolation starvation.
You can find some photos of efb/afb here (http://www.nationalbeeunit.com/gallery/index.cfm? ) for comparison

 

[Bosanac96]

Yes, i found dead bees head-first in cells, i knew already that bees died from starvation becuase weather changed from warm to cold in march (there were only handfull of bees in hive) and bees couldnt move to get food becuse they are keeping brood from cold. Three weeks from death of all bees in hive i opened hive to clean it and found rooten larvae in capped and uncapped cells. I still dont know for sure if it is efb or bees rotted due to decomposing process, but im sure that it isnt afb looking pictures you linked.