Supersedure question.

[Maz1]

Hi all, this evening I removed a colony from a stable wall cavity. There was a lot of honey stored and only a limited amount of sealed worker brood but no eggs that I could see. There were 5 supersedure cells that I took intact with the brood.
Is it too late in the season for a newly hatched queen to mate successfully?
Thanks in advance.

 

[Ian123]

No not at all..I would normally hope to get a few out of some mini nucs this late so we’ll worth a shot

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

sounds more like they swarmed rather than superseding - did you see the queen?

 

[Maz1]

sounds more like they swarmed rather than superseding - did you see the queen?

I didn’t see the queen, the colony was itself a swarm that set up in the stable about 6 weeks ago. I’m not certain that they’re queenless; I just couldn’t find any young larvae or eggs but there was some sealed worker brood.

 

[oliver90owner]

Queens rarely swarm twice. They are often superceded after swarming (in the same season, probably) - it is a natural tendency as the queen is usually an older one in an un-keepered situation.

 

[jeff33]

I have the same with a prime swarm I had earlier in the year. The colony is on dble brood and the queen has done a great job. I may put her in a nuc as back-up and let the hive raise another one.

 

[Finman]

Is it too late in the season for a newly hatched queen to mate successfully?
Thanks in advance.

Even if you get a laying queen, it is better to get a queen from good origin.
Mated queen has time to make more wintering bees in this case.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

Hi all, this evening I removed a colony from a stable wall cavity. There was a lot of honey stored and only a limited amount of sealed worker brood but no eggs that I could see. There were 5 supersedure cells that I took intact with the brood.
Is it too late in the season for a newly hatched queen to mate successfully?
Thanks in advance.

My little calculator tells me that even if she mates properly - if we have a warm September, she might - she won't be laying until the end of the month or even early October. As Finman points out, that's hardly enough time to develop a strong colony with which to go into winter. I think his advice is spot on - requeen now with a laying queen in order to get a strong workforce for winter.

Alternatively, if you have other colonies that maybe are not too strong, you could lose the queen cells and join the bees up with a weak colony to get a strong one to go through winter. You don't after all know anything about these bees whereas you know something about colonies you already have.

CVB

 

[oliver90owner]

.. my little calculator tells me...

That is rubbish, if they are superceding, there would still be the old laying queen present, until she is no longer needed. Quite often both queens can be found overwintering together.

Amazing how poorly thought through some replies appear, after a simple consideration of the real facts.

 

[charlievictorbravo]

.. my little calculator tells me...

That is rubbish, if they are superceding, there would still be the old laying queen present, until she is no longer needed. Quite often both queens can be found overwintering together.

Amazing how poorly thought through some replies appear, after a simple consideration of the real facts.

The OP said "I didn’t see the queen, the colony was itself a swarm that set up in the stable about 6 weeks ago. I’m not certain that they’re queenless; I just couldn’t find any young larvae or eggs but there was some sealed worker brood."

My reply was on the basis that the OP was correct. Furthermore, the question asked was "Is it too late in the season for a newly hatched queen to mate successfully?" My reply was to that question, not to one that was not asked.



CVB

 

[oliver90owner]

It is not yet September. Those queen cells may well emerge before September. Good weather and she may be mated soon after the first week in September. Laying by the end of the second week?

How long does it take to lay ten thousand eggs? It is more to do with how many bees are present now and the weather warm enough for mating. If it is supersedure, I would expect there to be eggs, but often beeks are unable to find them.

Anyway, your little calculator is WRONG. in all probability she will have her first brood cycle emerging around the end of the September, with several thousands following along.

Personally, I would want one of my own queens heading a swarmed colony, especially at this time of the year. A new, laying queen is preferable of course. But that does not make your little calculator any more reliable than I have pointed out.

Calculators don’t usually lie. It is usually rubbish in that gets rubbish out.

 

[beeno]

Many beeks have stated the lack of drones in their colonies, so mating success this year is not very good at all IMHO. Even my colonies are lacking in drones this year! Last year I had two virgins that did not get mated despite good mating weather early September. Luckily I had two spare nucs so were able to do late unites which turned out ok come spring.