Supercedure and swarm cells at the same time

[ChrisS]

An egg remains an egg for three days; on the fourth it hatches to become a larvae. Do you mean the bees took a three-day old larvae?

Yes, the workers can produce a viable queen from a 3 day old larva if needs must. This is vital information for beginners IMO.

 

[Murox]

As Boston Bees points out -- "Please take this down as it mixes up queens and workers"


and Amari says "That's not right, shirley?"

 

[oliver90owner]

This thread only goes to reinforce the inadequacy of making simple splits.

As I have written in a recent thread, how many bee farmers do you know that make increase in this manner? They do not follow this, frankly, stupid (but simple) procedure. There is, of course, a good reason for that. They KNOW that walk-away splits are far from the best way to increase colony numbers.

Why do beginners (and some not-so-much beginners) follow this path? Laziness, non-understanding of beekeeping, thinking it is idiot-proof, don’t know any better, following the “advice” of another beekeeper of similar status, or some other reason?

Some are even known to make multiple splits from a single colony in this way. The one single thing that is clearly obvious, is that what all these people don’t do, is give much thought to their beekeeping.

I could expect this from some beekeepers with double brooded colonies. Just separate the two boxes - the queen will be in one of them. Not really that clever.

Perhaps replies to all those coming on here with problems after making walk-away splits should simply be told of their folly and to sort it out themselves.

 

[Amari]

View attachment 27115

That's not right, shirley?

 

[Boston Bees]

View attachment 27115

Please take this down as it mixes up queens and workers

 

[Boston Bees]

This thread only goes to reinforce the inadequacy of making simple splits.Jo

As I have written in a recent thread, how many bee farmers do you know that make increase in this manner? They do not follow this, frankly, stupid (but simple) procedure. There is, of course, a good reason for that. They KNOW that walk-away splits are far from the best way to increase colony numbers.

Why do beginners (and some not-so-much beginners) follow this path? Laziness, non-understanding of beekeeping, thinking it is idiot-proof, don’t know any better, following the “advice” of another beekeeper of similar status, or some other reason?

Some are even known to make multiple splits from a single colony in this way. The one single thing that is clearly obvious, is that what all these people don’t do, is give much thought to their beekeeping.

I could expect this from some beekeepers with double brooded colonies. Just separate the two boxes - the queen will be in one of them. Not really that clever.

Perhaps replies to all those coming on here with problems after making walk-away splits should simply be told of their folly and to sort it out themselves.

Please avoid venting like this in the beginner's forum.

People need to be encouraged to ask questions, whatever they are.

 

[Foxylad]

http://www.susquehannabeekeepers.com/pdfs/Queen_Rearing_Calendar_Wheel.pdf

 

[user 819]

Why on earth are so many beginners reporting supersedure? The position of cells is absolutely nothing to do with intention.
I’d be interested in where these opinions are coming from. Friends? Facebook? YouTube? Books?

Also add LBKA's in the mix as a lot of the facetube lurkers also lurke within, spouting out rubbish.

 

[user 819]

2 Capped after 5 days? All the rest were open. Not a problem for me as that was the intention by splitting. Just seems a bit quick for them to have capped so quickly.

No not quick to seal as they elected to promote a day old worker larvae to produce a QC so already 4 days old. At the early larval stage the day old larvae will have been still fed a high RJ diet.

 

[user 20297]

...... how many bee farmers do you know that make increase in this manner?

.......I've read of at least one; and they do "worse" than that....three frame nucs allowed to raise their new queen!

A Bee Farmer's Swarm Prevention Method: Andrew Card's Guest Blog.

 

[Boston Bees]

Why on earth are so many beginners reporting supersedure? The position of cells is absolutely nothing to do with intention.
I’d be interested in where these opinions are coming from. Friends? Facebook? YouTube? Books?

Many online guides will say something about supercedure cells being more likely to be on the face of the frame, and swarm cell being more likely to be on the edge of the comb. And in BKA talks I would imagine that something similar is repeated. People try to simplify things too much. Then beginners read this stuff and mis-understand it to be a concrete rule that "cells on the face of the frame are called supercedure cells".

For example, a quick Google search revealed this in the first few results:

3 Types of Queen Cells - Trunch Beekeeping Group

 

[BugsInABox]

This thread only goes to reinforce the inadequacy of making simple splits.

As I have written in a recent thread, how many bee farmers do you know that make increase in this manner? They do not follow this, frankly, stupid (but simple) procedure. There is, of course, a good reason for that. They KNOW that walk-away splits are far from the best way to increase colony numbers.

Why do beginners (and some not-so-much beginners) follow this path? Laziness, non-understanding of beekeeping, thinking it is idiot-proof, don’t know any better, following the “advice” of another beekeeper of similar status, or some other reason? Let us all know which category you fit in!!

Some are even known to make multiple splits from a single colony in this way. The one single thing that is clearly obvious, is that what all these people don’t do, is give much thought to their beekeeping.

I could expect this from some beekeepers with double brooded colonies. Just separate the two boxes - the queen will be in one of them. Not really that clever.

Perhaps replies to all those coming on here with problems after making walk-away splits should simply be told of their folly and to sort it out themselves.

Is there an alternative in a tbh?

 

[Kaz]

2 Capped after 5 days? All the rest were open. Not a problem for me as that was the intention by splitting. Just seems a bit quick for them to have capped so quickly.

Remember the timings for queen development, 3 days as an egg, 5 as a larva, 8/9 sealed. So if the bees used a 3 day old larva to create a new queen, it would be capped in 2/3 days?

 

[Erichalfbee]

It may need tweaking

Can you do this as a standalone post in a new thread and I’ll make it a sticky

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

will do

 

[pete_allotments]

This thread only goes to reinforce the inadequacy of making simple splits.

As I have written in a recent thread, how many bee farmers do you know that make increase in this manner? They do not follow this, frankly, stupid (but simple) procedure. There is, of course, a good reason for that. They KNOW that walk-away splits are far from the best way to increase colony numbers.

Why do beginners (and some not-so-much beginners) follow this path? Laziness, non-understanding of beekeeping, thinking it is idiot-proof, don’t know any better, following the “advice” of another beekeeper of similar status, or some other reason?

Some are even known to make multiple splits from a single colony in this way. The one single thing that is clearly obvious, is that what all these people don’t do, is give much thought to their beekeeping.

I could expect this from some beekeepers with double brooded colonies. Just separate the two boxes - the queen will be in one of them. Not really that clever.

Perhaps replies to all those coming on here with problems after making walk-away splits should simply be told of their folly and to sort it out themselves.

Oliver,
I'm a novice beekeeper, who's only attended a course and read a couple of books.
For your comments above you have said a "walk-away" split is a "stupid/simple procedure".
Thus I have to increase y knowledge by asking: What is your preferred method for splitting a colony in a hive to reduce the chance of swarming?
You refer to "bee farmers" using a much better way of increasing colony numbers. What method would they be using.

I look forward to your reply
Regards
Pete
A novice beekeeper trying to expand their knowledge

 

[RichardK]

This thread only goes to reinforce the inadequacy of making simple splits.

As I have written in a recent thread, how many bee farmers do you know that make increase in this manner? They do not follow this, frankly, stupid (but simple) procedure. There is, of course, a good reason for that. They KNOW that walk-away splits are far from the best way to increase colony numbers.

Why do beginners (and some not-so-much beginners) follow this path? Laziness, non-understanding of beekeeping, thinking it is idiot-proof, don’t know any better, following the “advice” of another beekeeper of similar status, or some other reason?

Some are even known to make multiple splits from a single colony in this way. The one single thing that is clearly obvious, is that what all these people don’t do, is give much thought to their beekeeping.

I could expect this from some beekeepers with double brooded colonies. Just separate the two boxes - the queen will be in one of them. Not really that clever.

Perhaps replies to all those coming on here with problems after making walk-away splits should simply be told of their folly and to sort it out themselves.

You can't leave in on a cliff hanger like that!

What is your recommended way for beginners (and some not-so-much beginners) to take???

 

[pargyle]

You can't leave in on a cliff hanger like that!

What is your recommended way for beginners (and some not-so-much beginners) to take???

Oliver,
I'm a novice beekeeper, who's only attended a course and read a couple of books.
For your comments above you have said a "walk-away" split is a "stupid/simple procedure".
Thus I have to increase y knowledge by asking: What is your preferred method for splitting a colony in a hive to reduce the chance of swarming?
You refer to "bee farmers" using a much better way of increasing colony numbers. What method would they be using.

I look forward to your reply
Regards
Pete
A novice beekeeper trying to expand their knowledge

Give RAB time ... he's not dipped in since 10.00am this morning but if you really want to know why not drop him a nice PM - He's normally very helpful when you approach him with the right attitude. His bark is worse than his bite ...but he's usually right.

Before you do perhaps look up Demaree ....

 

[RichardK]

Give RAB time ... he's not dipped in since 10.00am this morning but if you really want to know why not drop him a nice PM - He's normally very helpful when you approach him with the right attitude. His bark is worse than his bite ...but he's usually right.

Before you do perhaps look up Demaree ....

I don't believe anyone is hassling him. It's very easy in life to be critical & negative which neither pete_allotments or I were being. Being positive and helpful is I believe what we should all aim for.

 

[jenkinsbrynmair]

'Splitting' right left and centre is the lazy beekeeper's method of avoiding swarms, it has it's place occasionally but can hardly be described as colony management all these people are doing is dividing the colony up into smaller colonies which have to work to rebuild again jeopardising any honey crop and almost ensuring you have weak hives goinbg into winter - but it seems to be the way many LBKA's prefer, no wonder the BBKA annual honey yield figure is so pitiful. There are plenty of proactive and reactive methods out there. Demarree being one good proactive system and Pagden being the reactive one used by many.